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December 2008: The King's Daughter by Sandra Worth

A monthly discussion on varying themes guided by our members. (Book of the Month discussions through December 2011 can be found in this section too.)
Helen_Davis

Post by Helen_Davis » Sat December 27th, 2008, 4:26 pm

[quote=""Eyza""]Andromeda:

I haven't read The King's Daughter, or the other books in this series, so I can't speak directly to the issues raised there. However, while it may be "misogynistic" to malign either Anne Boleyn or Elizabeth Woodville, neither woman was exactly a saint. In the case of Elizabeth Woodville, she seems to have been ambitious enough, and Edward IV's reputation as a womanizer was well enough known, so she thought she could make a "catch" out of him, one way or another. Once she "caught" him, she seems to have invited her family along to share the catch. She was probably expected, to a certain extent, at least, to do this. OTOH, her family was numerous enough(and some of them were ambitious enough in their own right), to be resented by those who were at court already, and one of those was the future Richard III. I should add here that I don't think he was a "saint" either, nor do I think he was the villain Shakespeare and the Tudor historians make him out to be. By the same token, I don't think Elizabeth Woodville was a totally evil woman(unless you think ambition is "unfeminine" and yes, many people still do); just a very ambitious and possibly somewhat manipulative one. But since nobody surrounding her was particularly 'saintly" themselves, I think it all kind of evens out in the end. As far as historical portrayals are concerned, given the circumstances, a wide range of such fictional historical portrayals is possible, and while Worth's appears to exaggerated in places, it's only one of many.
Anne G
[/quote]

I never said either woman was a saint- I just said it's misogynistic to portray them as evil b/c of their ambition. The same thing is done to Cleopatra VII, Eleanor of Aquitiane and Eva Peron, and, to a lesser extent, Isabel la Catolica.

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Vanessa
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Post by Vanessa » Sun December 28th, 2008, 4:35 pm

I shall be reading this one next. I take it I can post my thoughts on here even though it will be January when I finish it? I don't seem to have read much in December due to Christmas and having guests.
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Volgadon
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Post by Volgadon » Sun December 28th, 2008, 6:11 pm

[quote=""Andromeda_Organa""]I never said either woman was a saint- I just said it's misogynistic to portray them as evil b/c of their ambition. The same thing is done to Cleopatra VII, Eleanor of Aquitiane and Eva Peron, and, to a lesser extent, Isabel la Catolica.[/quote]

I dunno, I would call their male equivalents evil by the same token.

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Post by Volgadon » Sun December 28th, 2008, 6:15 pm

[quote=""Misfit""]Greed. Lust. Ambition. Betrayal. Blood.[/quote]

Sounds like a writing formula.

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Post by diamondlil » Sun December 28th, 2008, 7:57 pm

[quote=""Vanessa""]I shall be reading this one next. I take it I can post my thoughts on here even though it will be January when I finish it? I don't seem to have read much in December due to Christmas and having guests.[/quote]

That's fine. The thread remains open indefinitely.
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Christina
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Post by Christina » Fri January 2nd, 2009, 11:27 pm

Well...I am still longing to read this book and hope to receive my copy very soon. I love Sandra Worth's ability to take us into the characters and empathise with them. As a true Yorkist, raised and living in Yorkshire :-) , I believe there is still a sense here that Richard was the almost saintly character (by the standard of those days) that comes over so clearly in "The Rose of York" trilogy. I am not really a saccharine kind of person, and I never feel 'saccharine' when reading these books. I feel rather a sense of an author who has such empathy with, and strong feelings about the characters whom she is describing and when an author loves his/her characters and feels passionately about them, I think it comes over in their writing and is contageous! That is what I feel about Sandra Worth's books. They are not 'formulaic' at all. (Being more drawn to Victorian times, I have read so many formulaic books of that era, which I really dislike). Recently visiting some of the castles in the north of England, memories of these books were very much in my mind.
Hope my book comes soon and I can join this discussion properly!

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Vanessa
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Post by Vanessa » Tue January 6th, 2009, 8:53 am

Well, I have to say I enjoyed this book. I thought the author had taken a lot of trouble over her research and it was beautifully written, if a little flowery! I do agree that most of the 'goodies' and the 'baddies' are very well defined, but I also agree that it may be something to do with whose side the author is on - after all it's only her imagined version of events and literary licence is allowed I feel. Sandra Worth says in the 'author's note' where she gets her ideas from. I always read the author's notes so I can separate fact from fiction.

I enjoyed reading a tale from the perspective of a lesser known queen and a queen who I didn't really know much about - in most books about Tudor times she seems to be just a figure in the background, an 'invisible' queen. I didn't know she was so greatly revered by her public. All in all not a bad book at all.
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Post by Misfit » Mon January 12th, 2009, 12:13 am

I've got about 100 pages left and I have to admit I've been skimming since about page 200. Elizabeth is way to mary-sue-ish running around with rose covered glasses, the good guys are really really good and the baddies are really really bad and I swear they all have hooked noses, and I feel the only person who could portray Margaret Beaufort is Cruella de Vil.

The worst though for me is the bit proving to Henry VII that Elizabeth was a virgin. Since there is no historical basis that I'm aware of, and the author doesn't lay any groundwork for it in her notes I really can't see any need to put something in there like that.

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Post by Tanzanite » Wed February 18th, 2009, 1:11 am

I have less than 100 pages of this to go and I have a question. In two instances Elizabeth mentions that she is descended from John of Gaunt and Katherine (once is when she is talking about the need to get a dispensation from the Pope for her marriage to Henry Tudor). I know that Henry VII was descended from the Beauforts, but how is Elizabeth of York descended from them?

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Post by boswellbaxter » Wed February 18th, 2009, 1:23 am

[quote=""Tanzanite""]I have less than 100 pages of this to go and I have a question. In two instances Elizabeth mentions that she is descended from John of Gaunt and Katherine (once is when she is talking about the need to get a dispensation from the Pope for her marriage to Henry Tudor). I know that Henry VII was descended from the Beauforts, but how is Elizabeth of York descended from them?[/quote]


Though her grandmother, Cecily of York, daughter of Ralph Neville and Joan Beaufort.
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Coming in October: The Woodvilles


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