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phantom time theory

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Kveto from Prague
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Post by Kveto from Prague » Mon December 29th, 2008, 10:19 pm

quote: keny - what's wrong with Charlemagne being crowned on Christmas Day, 800? Right into the Middle Ages, English kings wore their crowns ceremonially on Christmas Day, among other special times, because it was a good time to get everyone important together so they could see you wearing your crown. Having the original coronation on Christmas Day wasn't unheard of, either - William the Bastard - sorry, Conquerer - was crowned on or near Christmas Day 1066 (and there was almost a riot).
I seem to remember that there is a letter existing, between Alfred the Great in England and Charlemagne, which talks about importing mill stones - an odd thing to fake, if you were going to fake the existance of Charlemagne, I would have thought.



why oh why would alfred the great and charlemagne be coresponding since charlegmagne died in 814 and Alfred was born in 849. was chuck writing from beyond the grave? :-) im assuming you mistook Offa for Alfred. otherwise a letter between alfred and charlemagne is a good argument in favour of the missing centuries theory :-)

anyway, my suspision was more about the year 800 than the xmas day. particularly, if you follow charlemagnes story that he had no idea that the pope had planned to crown him that day. charles was far too powerful to be crowed against his will anyway, as he claimed.

im not saying i support the theory one way or another, im just asking for more info about the theory. im also pointing out that the dark ages would be much easier to fake than say medievil times or the roman empire due to the dearth of sources.
Last edited by Kveto from Prague on Mon December 29th, 2008, 11:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Volgadon
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Post by Volgadon » Tue December 30th, 2008, 1:13 pm

[quote=""keny from prague""]anyway, my suspision was more about the year 800 than the xmas day. particularly, if you follow charlemagnes story that he had no idea that the pope had planned to crown him that day. charles was far too powerful to be crowed against his will anyway, as he claimed.[/quote]

That sounds far more like Charlemagne trying a bit of PR. I'm not ambitious and power hungry I am meek and humble.

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Kveto from Prague
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Post by Kveto from Prague » Tue December 30th, 2008, 1:35 pm

[quote=""Volgadon""]That sounds far more like Charlemagne trying a bit of PR. I'm not ambitious and power hungry I am meek and humble.[/quote]


oh no doubt :-) as you know, it was common practice to refuse a crown often and only bow to pressure after being asked repeatedly. by getting the pope to crown him without asking was a nice way of avoiding that process.

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Margaret
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Post by Margaret » Wed December 31st, 2008, 6:54 am

For years, people thought the stories in the Iliad and the Odyssey were pure fiction, until Schliemann discovered Troy. Later, I believe someone also studied the Odyssey and showed that the geographical details in it were quite accurate. Today, we make a distinction between fiction and nonfiction that may have been foreign to people in many past centuries. Our word "story" comes from the word "history". Still today in German, the same word (Geschichte) is used for both "history" and "story", something which gave me a lot of trouble when I was traveling in Germany and wanted to find the location of the "history" section in bookstores - when I asked about it, I was often directed to a section for local folk-tales and legends. I'm sure if my German were more fluent, I could have made a clearer distinction, but it interested me the way language reflects a past in which there was little distinction between history and legend.
Browse over 5000 historical novel listings (probably well over 5000 by now, but I haven't re-counted lately) and over 700 reviews at www.HistoricalNovels.info

annis
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Post by annis » Wed December 31st, 2008, 6:33 pm

Posted by Margaret
Later, I believe someone also studied the Odyssey and showed that the geographical details in it were quite accurate.
Tim Severin's (NF) book "The Ulysses Voyage" makes a case for Odyssey's journey being based on an actual event. He follows the clues in the epic itself to re-trace the likely route taken from Troy to Ithaca and points out where certain geographical features relate to various incidents in the poem- very interesting.

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