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Who do you think did in the princes in the tower?

A place to debate issues or to rant about what's on your mind. In addition to discussions about historical fiction, books, the publishing industry, and history, discussions about current political, social, and religious issues and other topics are allowed, so those who are easily offended by certain topics may want to avoid such threads. Members are expected to keep the discussions friendly and polite and to avoid personal attacks on other members. The moderators reserve the right to shut down a thread without warning if they believe it necessary.
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Leyland
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Post by Leyland » Mon November 3rd, 2008, 7:11 pm

[quote=""boswellbaxter""]I think both Robin Maxwell and Reay Tannahil go with Margaret Beaufort.[/quote]

Oh no! Not Katherine and John of Gaunt's great-granddaughter! They were such a nice family .... or at least Anya told me so! :rolleyes:

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Ludmilla
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Post by Ludmilla » Mon November 3rd, 2008, 7:46 pm

[quote=""Madeleine""]Yes someone did get done in with a red hot poker where the sun don't shine :eek: I think it was one of the Edwards but can never remember which one :o [/quote]

Yes, that would be Edward II, as instigated by Isabella or her lover, Mortimer, when Edward was imprisoned. The method by which Edward died is unknown, and I think the red-hot poker is generally regarded as just urban legend, but who knows how Edward died? Another one of those mysteries that people can make a good story with, regardless of what they really believe. (just editing to add that I didn't see BB's reply to this yesterday, but now see it clear as day -- I must be blind!).

Just adding, to be on topic, that the History Channel aired a great program on the princes in the tower. Not sure how old it is, but it's one of those programs that makes me stop whatever I'm doing and just sit and watch every time I chance upon it. I think it covers most of the major theories out there. I'm not sure what I believe. I did have fun reading Tey's version of it via Inspector Grant's investigations, though. Not sure I buy the concept that you can read that much into someone's facial expressions -- especially of an old painting which may or may not be a faithful portrait.
Last edited by Ludmilla on Tue November 4th, 2008, 1:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Margaret
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Post by Margaret » Mon November 3rd, 2008, 9:36 pm

I think it's impossible to know at this late date whodunit. But I am convinced by those who argue that if Richard had killed them to assure his right to the throne, he would have made their deaths public. I don't think he did it. Henry VII had a better motivation and certainly took advantage of their deaths very effectively to secure his claim to the throne, but that doesn't necessarily mean he did it.
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diamondlil
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Post by diamondlil » Mon November 3rd, 2008, 9:51 pm

I've seen her suggested in a book before.
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Tanzanite
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Post by Tanzanite » Tue November 4th, 2008, 2:11 am

[quote=""boswellbaxter""]I think both Robin Maxwell and Reay Tannahil go with Margaret Beaufort.[/quote]

Those are the two I've read.

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Volgadon
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Post by Volgadon » Fri November 21st, 2008, 8:06 pm

[quote=""Madeleine""]Yes someone did get done in with a red hot poker where the sun don't shine :eek: I think it was one of the Edwards but can never remember which one :o [/quote]

Happened to one of the Byzantine emperors as well.

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Volgadon
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Post by Volgadon » Fri November 21st, 2008, 8:11 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if Richard found out about it, but I don't think he was directly involved. Here's a thought, has this theory ever been suggested before? What if one of Richard's overzealous lieutenants figured that he would be doing his boss a great favour by disposing of the princes? Richard is furious, but there isn't much he can do without compromising himself. As I have only thought of the theory two minutes ago, it is probably full of flaws. Who would have done it, for starters.
Last edited by Volgadon on Fri November 21st, 2008, 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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boswellbaxter
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Post by boswellbaxter » Fri November 21st, 2008, 9:49 pm

[quote=""Volgadon""]I wouldn't be surprised if Richard found out about it, but I don't think he was directly involved. Here's a thought, has this theory ever been suggested before? What if one of Richard's overzealous lieutenants figured that he would be doing his both a great favour by disposing of the princes? Richard is furious, but there isn't much he can do without compromising himself. As I have only thought of the theory two minutes ago, it is probably full of flaws. Who would have done it, for starters.[/quote]

That theory's often used to argue that Buckingham did it (though there are other arguments made for Buckingham as well). A variant appears in Brenda Honeyman's novel Richard by the Grace of God.
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Post by diamondlil » Fri November 21st, 2008, 11:24 pm

I can't remember where I read it, but just this week I saw a mention about other people that disappeared over the years from the Tower of London. The point the person was making was that there were more than two people who this happened to. I will try to backtrack and work out where I would have seen it.
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Margaret
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Post by Margaret » Fri November 21st, 2008, 11:31 pm

What if one of Richard's overzealous lieutenants figured that he would be doing his boss a great favour by disposing of the princes?
As Bos says, Buckingham has been suggested. Is it a spoiler to say which novelists have adopted this theory?

I've read somewhere that some bones were found buried under a stairwell or someplace in the Tower, and they were long believed to have been the two princes' bones, but modern analysis shows the bones came from children the wrong age to be those of the two princes. That begs the question, of course - Whose were they?
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