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Who do you think did in the princes in the tower?

A place to debate issues or to rant about what's on your mind. In addition to discussions about historical fiction, books, the publishing industry, and history, discussions about current political, social, and religious issues and other topics are allowed, so those who are easily offended by certain topics may want to avoid such threads. Members are expected to keep the discussions friendly and polite and to avoid personal attacks on other members. The moderators reserve the right to shut down a thread without warning if they believe it necessary.
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Misfit
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Post by Misfit » Mon November 3rd, 2008, 12:30 pm

[quote=""Melisende""]Margaret Beaufort - she would do anything for her son, Henry.[/quote]

Hmmm, that's an interesting one.

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Tanzanite
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Post by Tanzanite » Mon November 3rd, 2008, 3:55 pm

[quote=""Melisende""]Margaret Beaufort - she would do anything for her son, Henry.[/quote]

I've seen that theory in a couple of fiction books. Interesting indeed.

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Spitfire
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Post by Spitfire » Mon November 3rd, 2008, 4:34 pm

[quote=""Tanzanite""]I've seen that theory in a couple of fiction books. Interesting indeed.[/quote]

Yes, very interresting, I wouldn't mind reading a book who's theory that supports! Do you remember which books those were, Tanzanite?
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MLE (Emily Cotton)
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Post by MLE (Emily Cotton) » Mon November 3rd, 2008, 5:49 pm

Henry VII. I think Costain made a very convincing case for that in his Plantagenet series, by looking at the relationships before and after among the royal family members. Elizabeth Woodville was locked up in a convent, and there was a very fast switch from when she supported Henry Tudor's invasion to her apparently hating the man's guts immediately afterwards. Also, Henry hired two scholars to write up really over-the-top treatises on what a rotten person Richard was, including accusing him of the prince's murder. Why would he bother with that?

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EC2
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Post by EC2 » Mon November 3rd, 2008, 5:56 pm

I haven't a clue :)
I used to think Richard dun it. Then I read Sunne in Splendour and all the pro Richard gubbins and decided he didn't. Then I came out the other side and thought - Child murdering evil uncle? Goody two-shoes? Neither felt right.
So now I'm sitting on the fence. I think he could well have done the deed.
I think someone needs to write a revisionist novel about Henry VII who, as Richard has risen in the adoration ranks has become persona non grata.
Whoever done it though was only following a long tradition. Henry I had his nephews' eyes put out, and is also strongly implicated in the hunting 'accident' to his brother William Rufus. King John very likely bumped off his nephew Arthur.
It's beyond my historical period, Boswell will know the details, but wasn't there a suspicious royal death involving a red hot poker? Or is it urban myth....
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For never will cowards fall down there.'

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Madeleine
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Post by Madeleine » Mon November 3rd, 2008, 5:59 pm

[quote=""EC2""]I haven't a clue :)
I, but wasn't there a suspicious royal death involving a red hot poker? Or is it urban myth....[/quote]

Yes someone did get done in with a red hot poker where the sun don't shine :eek: I think it was one of the Edwards but can never remember which one :o

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Misfit
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Post by Misfit » Mon November 3rd, 2008, 6:20 pm

[quote=""Madeleine""]Yes someone did get done in with a red hot poker where the sun don't shine :eek: I think it was one of the Edwards but can never remember which one :o [/quote]

Yes, I believe that was BB's Edward if I'm not mistaken. Ouch.

I'm going with Henry VII. He had more to gain than Richard did, especially putting the blame on Richard.

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Post by boswellbaxter » Mon November 3rd, 2008, 6:52 pm

[quote=""Misfit""]Yes, I believe that was BB's Edward if I'm not mistaken. Ouch.

I'm going with Henry VII. He had more to gain than Richard did, especially putting the blame on Richard.[/quote]

Though I followed the red-hot poker tradition in my novel, accounts of Edward II's dying by that means may be a commentary on what was thought to be his sexual preference rather than the actual method of his death, which modern historians think is more likely to have been accomplished by a more mundane method such as smothering. There's also a theory that he wasn't murdered at Berkeley Castle at all, but escaped abroad and died a natural death in Italy. Ian Mortimer has expounded upon this in his books on Roger Mortimer and Edward III.
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Post by boswellbaxter » Mon November 3rd, 2008, 6:54 pm

[quote=""Spitfire""]Yes, very interresting, I wouldn't mind reading a book who's theory that supports! Do you remember which books those were, Tanzanite?[/quote]

I think both Robin Maxwell and Reay Tannahil go with Margaret Beaufort.
Susan Higginbotham
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Post by boswellbaxter » Mon November 3rd, 2008, 6:59 pm

[quote=""EC2""]I haven't a clue :)
I think someone needs to write a revisionist novel about Henry VII who, as Richard has risen in the adoration ranks has become persona non grata.
[/quote]

There's a novel called An Unknown Welshman by Jean Stubbs that's sympathetic to Henry VII. It's a little dry, though, as I recall, and it ends very early in his reign, after his marriage to Elizabeth of York.
Susan Higginbotham
Coming in October: The Woodvilles


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