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Hilary Mantel / Duchess of Cambridge

annis
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Post by annis » Wed February 20th, 2013, 5:07 pm

Interesting point made by John Dugdale in the Guardian that the London Review of Books talks have often been the subject of controversy, and authors are perhaps given the freedom to stir it up a bit.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksbl ... NTCMP=SRCH

If a male author had made the same comments, would anyone bother to make a fuss about his physical appearance? If you're a woman not considered acceptably attractive you should keep your mouth shut? Isn't this sort of shallow value put on women that Mantel is highlighting? Newspapers like the DM have turned this into some sort of spin which has Mantel attacking the Duchess because she's a bitter, twisted and jealous old cow, totally missing the point that she is talking about the "objectification" of celebs like the Royals. In this case she was putting Kate in context with other royal brides of the past like Anne Boleyn. Did she intend to stir it up? I'd certainly say so :)
Last edited by annis on Wed February 20th, 2013, 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Divia
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Post by Divia » Wed February 20th, 2013, 5:47 pm

[quote=""Madeleine""]I think we're talking about historical context, in that royal women were basically brood mares to provide an heir and a spare. I do think Kate and William are a love match and they seem a genuine couple, but ultimately they have to keep the line going![/quote]

The fact that history wanted queens to produce heirs is obvious. I see no reason to state the obvious, but I guess Mantel does.


[quote=""annis""]http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksbl ... NTCMP=SRCH

If a male author had made the same comments, would anyone bother to make a fuss about his physical appearance? If you're a woman not considered acceptably attractive you should keep your mouth shut? Isn't this sort of shallow value put on women that Mantel is highlighting? Newspapers like the DM have turned this into some sort of spin which has Mantel attacking the Duchess because she's a bitter, twisted and jealous old cow, totally missing the point that she is talking about the "objectification" of celebs like the Royals. In this case she was putting Kate in context with other royal brides of the past like Anne Boleyn. Did she intend to stir it up? I'd certainly say so :) [/quote]

I daresay they would make a fuss about it. I don't think ugly women should keep their mouth shut, however perhaps one should choose their words better. To me she sounded vindictive and jealous. Catty. If that is not how she meant to be, well then she failed to execute that, or so I think.

And as stated before I see no reason to state the obvious. Kate needs to pop out a kid. Well, no kidding. OMG that must be the REVALUATION of the century!!!!!!!!!!???!!!!! :eek: She also has a public image? REALLY? *gasp* You mean like every other public figure. NO! Stop! I simply must sit down for this is such a shock to the system!

For me what it boils down to is what was Mantel's point? Cause to be honest I dont see one. Other that stirring the pot.
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Post by annis » Wed February 20th, 2013, 6:03 pm

I do see a certain irony (intended or otherwise) that in making the Duchess a specific example in such a personal way, Mantel is using or objectifying her just as much as anyone else. Because of the very constraints of the role which Mantel describes, Kate can't respond to this blitz from the blue in any way but sucking it up with a smile in accepted royal bride style. Poor Kate seems to be copping it this week - she was also publically lambasted earlier by fashion doyenne Vivienne Westwood.

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Post by SonjaMarie » Wed February 20th, 2013, 6:27 pm

What is this? Pick on the pregnant Duchess week? (Not in reference to anyone on forum)

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Post by Divia » Wed February 20th, 2013, 7:14 pm

[quote=""annis""]I do see a certain irony (intended or otherwise) that in making the Duchess a specific example in such a personal way, Mantel is using or objectifying her just as much as anyone else. Because of the very constraints of the role which Mantel describes, Kate can't respond to this blitz from the blue in any way but sucking it up with a smile in accepted royal bride style. Poor Kate seems to be copping it this week - she was also publically lambasted earlier by fashion doyenne Vivienne Westwood.[/quote]

What did Vivienne Westwood say about her?

And I agree there is nothing she can say. Which does suck but its her lot in life and I suppose she agreed to it when she married William. :(
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Post by annis » Wed February 20th, 2013, 7:29 pm

Here's the Daily Mail article- keeping in mind that the DM loves to sensationalise!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... cling.html

It's not the first time that Westwood has had a go at the Duchess for her style choices, though the criticism about needing to recycle her clothes is rather unfair - the Duchess actually does this quite a bit already.

Personally I couldn't see Kate choosing Westwood for her outfits - because of her role as a royal she has to tread a reasonably conventional path as far as clothes go and VW tends to be pretty outrageous :)

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Post by Lisa » Wed February 20th, 2013, 9:16 pm

[quote=""annis""]Here's the Daily Mail article- keeping in mind that the DM loves to sensationalise!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... cling.html

It's not the first time that Westwood has had a go at the Duchess for her style choices, though the criticism about needing to recycle her clothes is rather unfair - the Duchess actually does this quite a bit already.

Personally I couldn't see Kate choosing Westwood for her outfits - because of her role as a royal she has to tread a reasonably conventional path as far as clothes go and VW tends to be pretty outrageous :) [/quote]

I agree, VW isn't really the type of style you'd expect to see royals wearing, and if Kate did wear VW, someone else would just have a go and say it was inappropriate (probably the Daily Mail).

Also, really how dare VW criticise Kate's eye make up, when VW looks like that!? If she chooses to style herself like a clown and not care what anyone thinks, I think it's quite fair for Kate not to care what VW thinks.
Last edited by Lisa on Thu February 21st, 2013, 9:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Stupid phone typing again

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Post by Divia » Wed February 20th, 2013, 9:51 pm

[quote=""Lady of Bennachie""]
Also, really how dare VW criticise Kate's eye make up, when VW looks like that!? If she chooses to style herself like a clown and not care what anyone thinks, I think it's quite fair for Kate not to care what VW thinks.[/quote]

LOL I was thinking the same thing!!!


And I thought Kate did a good job of recycling her clothes. At least she seems to do it more than past royals, but maybe I am wrong.
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Post by Susan » Wed February 20th, 2013, 11:52 pm

It was my turn to post the royal news last night (for today) for the royalty website I help to administer and there were a ton of articles about this. It was interesting to see the bent of the different media sources and even the bent of the articles in each media source (especially The Guardian). For anyone interested, here's the link to today's news links: http://www.unofficialroyalty.com/royal- ... uary-2013/
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Post by rebecca » Thu February 21st, 2013, 12:56 am

What I was trying to get across in a rather smarmy way was that the author deliberately invoked today's Royals with the intent of garnering press interest and to that extent she was hugely successful. But I think the irony she used in exposing our value system will go over the heads of the 'gotcha' press and 'celebrity chasers.'

We are becoming a society where a person does not have to be intelligent to gain worldwide exposure, they simply have to be beautiful and know when to simper and bat their eye lashes; a good case in point is the Kardashians, who let’s face it, are not known for their intellectual prowess.

The Royals are not 'celebrities' and their lifestyle is not to garner fame for fames sake. They have a duty to perform and do they do it well and their contribution to their country is invaluable. They are not a brand that needs selling, nor do they need endorsements, their job for want of a better word is to present the best that their country has to offer and they are doing it well.

I don't know how well Hilary Mantel knows her subject when it comes to The Duchess of Cambridge as some of her observations seem shallow; there is much more to the lady than being presented as an empty headed fashion horse, who knows when to smile on cue. My own belief is that Kate Middleton went after William at their first encounter, they then shared a flat together and when Prince William wanted to leave St. Andrews it was Kate who talked him into staying, a very canny move.

In the early days the royal couple had their ups and downs including their break up, but once again Kate showed her mettle by not curling up and dying, but rather she went out and proved to William just what he was missing.

In the end Kate got her man and William is no pushover. The big bonus for both of them is that they do love and support one another. They are now living a relatively private life while they can and hence Kate appears a glossy figure lacking in substance, she is anything but that.

I think Hilary Mantel should have been more judicious in her opinion on people in whom she knows so little and some of her remarks are catty and spiteful:
"But Kate Middleton, as she was, appeared to have been designed by a committee and built by craftsmen, with a perfect plastic smile and the spindles of her limbs hand-turned and gloss-varnished..."....Kate seems to have been selected for her role of princess because she was irreproachable: as painfully thin as anyone could wish, without quirks, without oddities, without the risk of the emergence of character..."

With her article Hilary has started a firestorm, whether this is what she intended I do not know and I don't intend to second guess just by looking at her photo...Is Hilary simply tired of being photographed? :p

But in her first official portrait by Paul Emsley, unveiled in January, her eyes are dead and she wears the strained smile of a woman who really wants to tell the painter to bugger off. One critic said perceptively that she appeared ‘weary of being looked at’.

I am not telepathic, but I wonder if Hilary by the end of the week will sip a hot cup of cocoa while she reads a Barbara Cartland novel. :p

Bec :)

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