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Can you swim in a mail shirt?

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EC2
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Can you swim in a mail shirt?

Post by EC2 » Mon October 6th, 2008, 6:40 pm

Les proz e les vassals
Souvent entre piez de chevals
Kar ja li coard n’I chasront

'The Brave and the valiant
Are always to be found between the hooves of horses
For never will cowards fall down there.'

Histoire de Guillaume le Mareschal

www.elizabethchadwick.com

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Leyland
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Post by Leyland » Mon October 6th, 2008, 7:13 pm

Pretty cool! I'm glad it worked for him - I liked his story and will re-visit the site when he's got the rest of gear on as mentioned and tries again. Plus, he's kinda cute!

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Post by annis » Mon October 6th, 2008, 8:01 pm

Another preconception down the tubes! I like his self-deprecating sense of humour.

I'm guessing that you wouldn't be doing much swimming in a later medieval full suit of armour, though, like one of these beauties:
http://www.knightsedge.com/suits-of-armor.htm
Originals wouldn't have had an aluminium option, of course!
An interesting point I came across --a full suit of medieval plate is thought to have weighed little more than 60 lb (27 kg) on average, considerably lighter than the equipment often carried by the elite of today's armies. (For example, SAS patrols have been known to carry equipment weighing well over 200 lb (91 kg) for many miles).

I'm amazed at how many places there are selling replica armour and stuff. Don't know about the armour, but perhaps I might fancy a slave bracelet or maybe a banner--

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Volgadon
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Post by Volgadon » Mon October 6th, 2008, 9:40 pm

I think it was possible, but there are other things to factor in. Fatigue, injuries, panic, darkness, the strength of the current, how steep the banks are and how soft, and so on.
What I mean to say is if a fairly fit man put the suit of armour on just before attempting a swim, then he would probably make it. Those things were pretty flexible.

[quote=""annis""]Another preconception down the tubes! I like his self-deprecating sense of humour.

I'm guessing that you wouldn't be doing much swimming in a later medieval full suit of armour, though, like one of these beauties:
http://www.knightsedge.com/suits-of-armor.htm
Originals wouldn't have had an aluminium option, of course!
An interesting point I came across --a full suit of medieval plate is thought to have weighed little more than 60 lb (27 kg) on average, considerably lighter than the equipment often carried by the elite of today's armies. (For example, SAS patrols have been known to carry equipment weighing well over 200 lb (91 kg) for many miles).

I'm amazed at how many places there are selling replica armour and stuff. Don't know about the armour, but perhaps I might fancy a slave bracelet or maybe a banner--[/quote]

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Spitfire
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Post by Spitfire » Wed October 8th, 2008, 1:26 am

That is quite amazing, I always assumed you could not swim in mail. Perhaps medieval men were marginal swimmers to start with so if they fell in water it would be curtains? Perhaps after a battle they would be too fatigued to swim especially with the extra weight? Actually like the fellow on that site stated that this was a misconception that was passed down during the vicorian era, is probably the actual truth. We know even today how things can get misconstrued and passed along until even a false idea can collectively become an untrue "fact".
Only the pure of heart can make good soup. - Beethoven

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pat
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Post by pat » Wed October 8th, 2008, 3:38 am

I wonder if it would stop shark attacks.....!
*imagines surfing dudes wearing mail*
A good book and a good coffee, what more can anyone want? xx

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Post by Margaret » Wed October 8th, 2008, 4:53 am

There was an interesting article in Military History magazine a while back exploding the myth that plate armor was cumbersome and difficult to move around in. It stands to reason, actually, that something worn by professional soldiers for centuries would have been refined to the point where it was as practical as possible to fight in.
Browse over 5000 historical novel listings (probably well over 5000 by now, but I haven't re-counted lately) and over 700 reviews at www.HistoricalNovels.info

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Azincort

Post by chuck » Wed October 8th, 2008, 3:58 pm

:cool: [quote=""Margaret""]There was an interesting article in Military History magazine a while back exploding the myth that plate armor was cumbersome and difficult to move around in. It stands to reason, actually, that something worn by professional soldiers for centuries would have been refined to the point where it was as practical as possible to fight in.[/quote]


Hello Margaret..... Branagh's wonderful film "Henry V"....The scenes of the unhorsed French Knights in full armour plate fighting in mud up to their knees against the English foot Soldier was a real eye opener...The French Knights had no chance....and some drowned in the mud.....I'm not an expert on the Battle, the Long Bow and the mud was their downfall....If it would have been a dry killing ground I wonder if the Battle would have been a bit a different.....

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Post by annis » Wed October 8th, 2008, 5:01 pm

Chuck, my copy of Bernard Cornwell's "Azincourt" has just arrived in the mail. So fast, I only ordered it from Book Depository on the 2nd of October! I'm looking forward to his take on the famous battle.

I guess seeing guys started training so young in medieval times that they would have grown up with their armour and become used to the weight and doing all the normal things while wearing it over time (rather like the classical Greek story aboit Milo and his calf!)
It was interesting though to discover that plate armour wasn't maybe as heavy as I'd always thought. Still, it would definitely give you a disadvantage when fighting in mud.

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Post by chuck » Wed October 8th, 2008, 5:28 pm

Hello Annis.....As Armour evolved...was it designed for Horse warfare or on foot or maybe both?....I remember watching the scene in Robin and Marion where the Sheriff and Robin were fighting to the death and it look so tiring and clumsy...I was not use seeing realism in film and the same with the 70's film version of the "Three Musketeers" look very slow and clumsy but deadly....No swinging from a chandelier....today I prefer the realism style....I have on "Azincourt" on my to buy list....I'm considering buying the total Sharpe Series ...will start with EBay....any suggestions.....

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