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A King by Any Other Name

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Susan
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Post by Susan » Sat February 18th, 2012, 9:35 pm

[quote=""Kveto from Prague""]Annis, so would the house of "Windsor" be a regnal name? Since it was changed during their reign from Saxe-coberg-gotha, i believe, during the great war, to try to veil their German heritage.

Any idea why they settled on "Windsor"? Other than it sounding very British.[/quote]

Windsor is the name of the royal house or dynasty. Yes, George V changed the house name during WWI because of anti-German sentiment. He also had relatives living in the UK change their Germanic names and titles to anglicized ones. Thus, Prince Louis of Battenberg, who had married a granddaughter of Queen Victoria and is the grandfather of Prince Philip, became Louis Mountbatten, 1st Marquess of Milford Haven. If I am remembering correctly George V's private secretary suggested the name Windsor. The town of Windsor and its castle had been long associated with the royal family.

Genealogically, there really hasn't been a change of dynasties since Parliament declared Sophia, Electress of Hanover (who was a granddaughter of James I) the heir in the 1701 Act of Settlement when the Protestant Stuart line was going to die out. Sophia's son George became the first Hanover king. There were 50+ Catholic Stuarts who had a better claim to the throne. Since that time the child, grandchild (as in the case of George III) or the niece (as in the case of Victoria) of a monarch has inherited the throne.
~Susan~
~Unofficial Royalty~
Royal news updated daily, information and discussion about royalty past and present
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SGM
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Post by SGM » Sun February 19th, 2012, 8:50 am

Here is the link
http://www.royal.gov.uk/thecurrentroyal ... rview.aspx
That explains the royal family's take on the surname issue. I have come across other information that Prince Philip was less than pleased that the name of the Royal house would not be changed to his for his defendants so I suppose the later declaration about the use of tha name Mountbatten-Windsor (see
Link) helped alleviate some of the strain.

After the death of Queen Anne and in accordance with the Act of Settlement, the Hanoverian line took the British throne, George I being the oldest son of the youngest daughter of James VI/I's daughter ElizabBeth (Aka Elizabeth of Bohemia) who had been very popular before her marriage to Frederick of the Palatinate. -- the guy who started the 30 Years war much to the disgust of James.

After the deaths of James II's sons by Mary of Modena without issue, what became known as the Jacobite line was traced through Henriette Anne, the youngest sister of Charles II's. As far as I recall this line no longer makes any claim but I am fairly sure the family is now German despite HA's marriage to Louis XIV's brother. So no change there.

Until Edward VII married into the Danish royal family, all consorts were German from 1714 onwards.

I am surprised there were as many as 50 with a better claim by 1714 and would be interested to know if these were from any line other than that of Henriette Anne.
Last edited by SGM on Sun February 19th, 2012, 10:42 am, edited 3 times in total.
Currently reading - Emergence of a Nation State by Alan Smith

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Susan
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Post by Susan » Sun February 19th, 2012, 1:15 pm

[quote=""SGM""]I am surprised there were as many as 50 with a better claim by 1714 and would be interested to know if these were from any line other than that of Henriette Anne.[/quote]

In 1714, the Jacobite descendants were all from Henrietta Anne, the youngest daughter of Charles I, and her daughter Anne Marie d'Orléans except for the James Francis Edward Stuart who was the son of the deposed James II. He's also known as the Old Pretender. He had two sons born after 1714, Charles Edward Stuart (b. 1720, Bonnie Prince Charlie) and Henry Benedict Stuart (b. 1725, became a Cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church). Neither son had legitimate issue.

Here's a link that lists the succession to the throne (Catholic and Protestant) in 1714. The site says 48 of them were Catholic, but George I was number 56, so there were 55 people who had a better genealogical claim to the throne.
http://www.jacobite.ca/essays/1714succession.htm

The current Jacobite "claimant" is Franz, Duke of Bavaria although as stated previously the duke makes no claim. He is childless and has a brother, Prince Max of Bavaria. Prince Max has only daughters and his eldest daughter is Sophie who is married to the Hereditary Prince of Liechtenstein. Therefore the Jacobite "claim" will descend into the Princely Family of Liechtenstein.

More information on the Jacobites:
http://www.jacobite.ca/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobite_succession
Last edited by Susan on Sun February 19th, 2012, 1:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
~Susan~
~Unofficial Royalty~
Royal news updated daily, information and discussion about royalty past and present
http://www.unofficialroyalty.com/

SGM
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Post by SGM » Sun February 19th, 2012, 2:09 pm

[quote=""Susan""]In 1714, the Jacobite descendants were all from Henrietta Anne, the youngest daughter of Charles I, and her daughter Anne Marie d'Orléans except for the James Francis Edward Stuart who was the son of the deposed James II. He's also known as the Old Pretender. He had two sons born after 1714, Charles Edward Stuart (b. 1720, Bonnie Prince Charlie) and Henry Benedict Stuart (b. 1725, became a Cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church). Neither son had legitimate issue.

Here's a link that lists the succession to the throne (Catholic and Protestant) in 1714. The site says 48 of them were Catholic, but George I was number 56, so there were 55 people who had a better genealogical claim to the throne.
http://www.jacobite.ca/essays/1714succession.htm

The current Jacobite "claimant" is Franz, Duke of Bavaria although as stated previously the duke makes no claim. He is childless and has a brother, Prince Max of Bavaria. Prince Max has only daughters and his eldest daughter is Sophie who is married to the Hereditary Prince of Liechtenstein. Therefore the Jacobite "claim" will descend into the Princely Family of Liechtenstein.

More information on the Jacobites:
http://www.jacobite.ca/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobite_succession[/quote]

I have seen this list before and we all know about the Old and Young Jacobite Pretenders and that the British Crown has only been strictly hereditary since the Act of Settlement. I was just surprised that between 1660 and 1714, the descendents of Henriette Anne could amount to more than 50. But as I mentioned, they all end up German anyway. But it just goes to show what large families they had then. Some time ago, I did some checking into the names on this but you tend to get bored before you get to the end and it's not hugely important at the end because of the primacy of parliamentary legislation in the constitution which was more or less established by the end of the 17th century.

Obviously, apart from anything else, Sophia Dorothea had several older siblings whose offspring would have a closer claim than her own were it not for parliamentary legislation.

The Act of Union of 1707 was to a large extent was brought about by the fact that William of Orange only managed to enact the Act of Settlement in England and not Scotland thus leaving the Scottish succession in doubt if Queen Anne died childless, which of course she did.
Last edited by SGM on Sun February 19th, 2012, 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Currently reading - Emergence of a Nation State by Alan Smith

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