Does Historical Fiction Glorify Racism, Sexism & Discrimination?

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Wed October 12th, 2011, 12:42 am

[quote=""Misfit""]Thank you. It's been soooooooooo long, but I could have swore Patch raped Kayla. Or was it just all his yelling?[/quote]

I don't recall anything negative in their relationship. Do you recall how wonderful Patch was to Kayla when she lost her hearing?

I just now discovered that Wikipedia has story-lines for many of the DOOL's characters at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Da ... st_members Click on the character's name. I can't recall half of what is written about the characters! I do recall that Marlena's one-time love, Don Craig, went out to mail a letter and never returned!

Misfit · Post by **Misfit** » Wed October 12th, 2011, 1:09 am

[quote=""Susan""]I don't recall anything negative in their relationship. Do you recall how wonderful Patch was to Kayla when she lost her hearing?

I just now discovered that Wikipedia has story-lines for many of the DOOL's characters at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Da ... st_members Click on the character's name. I can't recall half of what is written about the characters! I do recall that Marlena's one-time love, Don Craig, went out to mail a letter and never returned![/quote]

I think I started watching the show later than that so perhaps I picked up on some other references to previous storylines. Or rewritten history. As I don't need more time suck, I'm going to do my best to avoid the wik recaps

Divia · Post by **Divia** » Wed October 12th, 2011, 10:01 am

Wow. I didn't know there was more than one "couple" with the rape theme.

Ludmilla · Post by **Ludmilla** » Wed October 12th, 2011, 2:07 pm

The rape theme is as old as time, I think. It does deserve a treatment that doesn't glorify or gloss over what it is, though.

Women aren't always the emotional stereotype or victim of melodramas. We can be quite pragmatic when necessary. Even today, you'll find women quite ruthless in their determination to win a mate they think will provide security for them. Women in earlier times were no different and often switched their allegiance and affections to protect themselves and thereby avoid or at least mitigate a worse fate. I thought Carla Nayland's Paths of Exile did a great job of demonstrating this. This is in part how so many cultures get absorbed by the more successful invaders.

DianeL · Post by **DianeL** » Thu October 13th, 2011, 12:32 am

There isn't a great deal of sex in my own FIRST manuscript, but the female lead is both very much a figure of her time and yet not an utter wilting lilly. In my WIP, the focus shifts much more heavily to female characters, and (without throwing around 21st century feminism) I'm enjoying the prospect of a woman who married on her own steam - and watched her husband pay the ultimate price for that (he was a slave) - then learned to toe the party line ... and eventually took a position of power for herself. All this she does within the context of her century, and I hope I will not create an anachronism in her, but it feels like a rollicking yarn. Tension to spare! Woo!

rebecca · Post by **rebecca** » Thu October 13th, 2011, 2:01 am

Margaret--"the rape fantasies in which a woman falls in love with her rapist are generally, I think, written by women. They may not be anatomically explicit, but the harmful aspect of the fantasy is the idea that it is OK and even desirable for a woman to be raped...."

You see I don't find it acceptable to write a rape scene as 'romantic' and yet there are women who probably do buy those types of books. I also know that many young women these days also think that it is OK for a man to slap a woman if she 'deserves' it. This is not only in books but also in song lyrics where abuse is promoted as 'normal part of a relationship.' It is wrong and it is dangerous, not just for girls but also for young men.
It needs to be written in such a way that it is portrayed as wrong and is harmful to both sexes. I have not read 'The Binding Chair' but if it is written in such a way that the abuse is exposed but not glorified then I find that perfectly acceptable.

Ludmilla--"Women aren't always the emotional stereotype or victim of melodramas. We can be quite pragmatic when necessary. Even today, you'll find women quite ruthless in their determination to win a mate they think will provide security for them."

Your comment refreshed my memory of a book I read many years ago called 'A Woman in Berlin'(I think?). It is set just after WWII and the woman in question knows that she will be raped and so decides to use her body as her protection and seeks out an officer as her 'lover' in order to save herself from being gang raped. It is a horrible position for a woman to have to face and yet it was the pragmatic solution to this woman's circumstances.

As for Days of our lives I never watched it, but I admit to being a huge Eastenders fan.

Bec

DianeL · Post by **DianeL** » Thu October 13th, 2011, 2:39 am

I just remembered the movie "Flesh and Blood" - a pretty sobering Rutger Hauer historical - in which a rape victim grasps what control she can by forging a relationship with her predator. There's a lot to say about this film, but its ambiguity is, in the end, not challenging - but utterly terrifying. The way the bond is treated is dispiritingly salacious, and the production as a whole is dingy in more ways than one. It's the sort of thing which, if you actually watch it, can leave you feeling a little depressed about the nature of people and the entertainment we consume.

Has anybody else seen this piece?

wendy · Post by **wendy** » Thu October 13th, 2011, 1:00 pm

[quote=""Ludmilla""]The rape theme is as old as time, I think. It does deserve a treatment that doesn't glorify or gloss over what it is, though.
[/quote]

I agree! Some of my reviewers have been upset by the amount of rape portrayed in FIRE ON DARK WATER but Blackbeard and Co. were pirates.
They pillaged and plundered at will! The women they came in contact with with generally prostitutes, many of them damaged personalities, and the strongest learned to survive by turning the tables and using sex as a weapon.

I'm sure few little girls wake up one morning and think, "Gee, I want to be a prostitute when I grow up!" But there is a reason why prostitution is the "oldest profession" - and it's usually not far away from rape, incest, sexual abuse, etc.

As a writer I believe it is VITAL not to glorify or gloss over the damage.

Divia · Post by **Divia** » Thu October 13th, 2011, 8:06 pm

Interesting discussion on rape. In my WIP my MC is raped as well. She doesnt fall in love with the predator, but sees him frequently. She tries to distance herself from him and go on as if it never happened. In fact she goes out of her way to hide things.

It never once occurred to me to have her fall in love with her rapist. And I cannot see how anyone could write it. Now, if someone was held prisoner for 15 years I might go along with it, but thats about the only time.

And I agree no every woman's experience of rape is the same. Just as our experiences of death are not the same. There isnt a one size fits all.

Helen_Davis · Post by **Helen_Davis** » Mon November 7th, 2011, 10:37 pm

[quote=""Divia""]Interesting discussion on rape. In my WIP my MC is raped as well. She doesnt fall in love with the predator, but sees him frequently. She tries to distance herself from him and go on as if it never happened. In fact she goes out of her way to hide things.

It never once occurred to me to have her fall in love with her rapist. And I cannot see how anyone could write it. Now, if someone was held prisoner for 15 years I might go along with it, but thats about the only time.

And I agree no every woman's experience of rape is the same. Just as our experiences of death are not the same. There isnt a one size fits all.[/quote]

As a rape victim, I cannot imagine ever falling in love with my rapist. I can't see how any woman could either.