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What do you think of the Government bailout?

A place to debate issues or to rant about what's on your mind. In addition to discussions about historical fiction, books, the publishing industry, and history, discussions about current political, social, and religious issues and other topics are allowed, so those who are easily offended by certain topics may want to avoid such threads. Members are expected to keep the discussions friendly and polite and to avoid personal attacks on other members. The moderators reserve the right to shut down a thread without warning if they believe it necessary.
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Misfit
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Post by Misfit » Tue October 7th, 2008, 1:48 pm

[quote=""Divia""]Its all a bunch of crap. If you cant afford a house you cant afford a house. If you cant afford a 30o thou house then you cant afford it. Why the banks were giving money to these people is beyond me. And why these stupid people took it is beyond me. I daresay very few people live within their means these days and thats whats gotten us into this heap of trouble. :mad: [/quote]

That's a big part of the whole problem, the banks are giving people way too much credit than they can possibly handle, it's too easy for people to file bankruptcy and the bank's left holding the bag and whining to congress to bail them out from their own stupid mistakes.

I'm sure I've stated it previously in this thread but I've seen a couple of recent bankruptcy petitions filed by people I knew were incapable of paying a bill and yet the amount of credit card debt was unbelievable -- worse yet some were multiple credit card accounts issued by the same bank (Bank of Am and Wells Fargo seemed to be the most common of those).

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Leyland
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Post by Leyland » Tue October 7th, 2008, 2:36 pm

[quote=""Divia""]If you cant afford a house you cant afford a house. If you cant afford a 30o thou house then you cant afford it. Why the banks were giving money to these people is beyond me.[/quote]

Because some Democrat party leaders decided that everyone, especially those with limited means, should be able to afford a house and thus forced mortgage lenders/banks to make the loans. That's a side of the Democratic party I really really don't like. I understand the sympathetic motive to make everything all better for the underprivileged (and get their votes), but it's a stupid and dangerous attitude to assume that most of these people have the personal management skills to take on the responsibilty or at least to learn the skills lacked. Anyone should be able to budget their use of credit, allow a cushion for unexpected expenses or increases in known expenses, and balance a check book, but then maybe they can't or worse, won't.

[quote=""Divia""] And why these stupid people took it is beyond me. I daresay very few people live within their means these days and thats whats gotten us into this heap of trouble.[/quote]

Ah well, we'll all be paying for this collective stupidity for a long time to come. I certainly hope the stock market will recover at least half its recent losses in the next twelve months.
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams ~ Arthur O'Shaughnessy, Ode

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LCW
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Post by LCW » Tue October 7th, 2008, 2:50 pm

[quote=""Leyland""]Because some Democrat party leaders decided that everyone, especially those with limited means, should be able to afford a house and thus forced mortgage lenders/banks to make the loans. That's a side of the Democratic party I really really don't like. [/quote]

Umm, am I the only one remembers the constant bragging by George Bush about how the Republicans were really the one's who helped minorities and lower income people afford homes? What about the whole push by the Bush Republicans to create an "ownership society"?

There is blame to go around and for anyone, regardless of their political persuasions, to be putting the blame on ONE party is really short sighted. Yes, the Democrats may have gone to far in making sure that the American dream was alive and well for ALL Americans and that contributed to the problem but Republicans constant deregulation and favors thrown to the big finance companies and banks contributed as much if not more. And lets not forget that the Banks and mortgage companies took this deregulation and ran with it creating new financial products, mortgage bundling, and predatory loans. They defrauded gullible people who were just trying to get their piece of the pie. Stupid? Yes, but it's easy to pass the buck to the powerless and defenseless while allowing the banks and predatory lenders off the hook. And lets not forget those companies made billions of dollars off these people that they scammed!!!

There is PLENTY of blame to go around here on both parties and the financial institutions, and idiots who bought what they couldn't afford. And if we as voters don't recognize that then we will vote ourselves right back in this s#$thole in a few more years. Playing the blame game and blindly throwing mud on those whose political views we don't agree with might make us feel better but it's only going to make things worse!
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Leyland
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Post by Leyland » Tue October 7th, 2008, 3:09 pm

[quote=""1lila1""]but Republicans constant deregulation and favors thrown to the big finance companies and banks contributed as much if not more.[/quote]

That's a side of the Republican party I really really don't like.
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams ~ Arthur O'Shaughnessy, Ode

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Leyland
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Post by Leyland » Tue October 7th, 2008, 3:25 pm

Seriously, many times the economic problems we face are tied to underlying human nature characteristics such as greed, corruption, and misplaced optimism, or war or other military actions, and so on. I suspect we'll always be trying to find federal governmental policies to protect against unscrupulous people who find ways to get away with harmful practices or don't contribute a fair responsible share. Sarbanes-Oxley is one such recent policy.

I'm sure Alexander Hamilton and all those Secretaries of the Treasury who followed have really had their work cut out for them. The United States continues to be a work in progress. Remember this bailout issue?

In the Report on Public Credit, the Secretary made a controversial proposal that would have the federal government assume state debts incurred during the Revolution. This would, in effect, give the federal government much more power by placing the country's most serious financial obligation in the hands of the federal, rather than the state governments.

The primary criticism of the plan was spearheaded by Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson and Representative James Madison. Some states, like Jefferson's Virginia, had paid almost half of their debts, and felt that their taxpayers should not be assessed again to bail out the less provident. They further argued that the plan passed beyond the scope of the new Constitutional government.
from Wiki.
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams ~ Arthur O'Shaughnessy, Ode

chuck
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Post by chuck » Tue October 7th, 2008, 8:00 pm

I think it would be a good thing to reintroduce the Pillory sentence again....All those Greedy C.E.O.'s who took huge bonuses and ran and the Bankers/ Brokers who sold the toxic mortgages and then resold them again for a quick buck should all be candidates for the Pillory.....Save your rotten fruit and eggs....They need to be Publicly Humiliated...
Last edited by chuck on Tue October 7th, 2008, 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: additional words

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Telynor
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Post by Telynor » Tue October 7th, 2008, 10:54 pm

Pity we couldn't slap a guillotine down in times square -- I'm joking, I'm joking, but it makes for a satisfying image.

People, sadly, are just plain stupid when it comes to money. And now it has come time to pay the piper, to use a cliche. Those who have the wits to survive and know how to cut back will make it, those who can't, won't. I know that's harsh words, but that just simply the way it is. And sadly, mathematics and economics tend to have a simple rule at their heart -- mess around with the formula that 1+1=2 and it will all eventually collapse. What we need right now is someone like FDR who had the wits to keep people from panicking, and managed to get through the '30's, despite mass unemployment and breadlines.

I do apologize for being such a cynic, but I fear that it is all going to get much worse before it gets better.

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Divia
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Post by Divia » Wed October 8th, 2008, 12:42 am

cynic or not I quite agree with you! Things will get far worse before they get better and that is downright fearful. I barely held onto my crappy job this year, I fear next year it maybe gone!
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donroc
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Post by donroc » Wed October 8th, 2008, 11:52 am

I had to share this email.

MARKET TERMS


NEW STOCK MARKET TERMS




CEO --Chief Embezzlement Officer.


CFO-- Corporate Fraud Officer.


BULL MARKET -- A random market movement causing an investor to mistake himself for a financial genius.


BEAR MARKET -- A 6 to 18 month period when the kids get no allowance,

the wife gets no jewelry, and the husband gets no sex.


VALUE INVESTING -- The art of buying low and selling lower.


P/E RATIO -- The percentage of investors wetting their pants as the

market keeps crashing.


BROKER -- What my broker has made me.


STANDARD & POOR -- Your life in a nutshell.


STOCK ANALYST -- Idiot who just downgraded your stock.


STOCK SPLIT -- When your ex-wife and her lawyer split your assets

equally between themselves.


MARKET CORRECTION -- The day after you buy stocks.


CASH FLOW-- The movement your money makes as it disappears down the toilet.


YAHOO -- What you yell after selling it to some poor sucker for $240 per share.


WINDOWS -- What you jump out of when you're the sucker who bought

Yahoo @ $240 per share.


INSTITUTIONAL INVESTOR -- Past year investor who's now locked up in a nuthouse.


PROFIT -- An archaic word
Image

Bodo the Apostate, a novel set during the reign of Louis the Pious and end of the Carolingian Empire.

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Leyland
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Post by Leyland » Wed October 8th, 2008, 12:50 pm

Thanks Don! Great laugh here before starting the work day ... love the definition of CEO and CFO.
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams ~ Arthur O'Shaughnessy, Ode

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