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What do you think of the Government bailout?

A place to debate issues or to rant about what's on your mind. In addition to discussions about historical fiction, books, the publishing industry, and history, discussions about current political, social, and religious issues and other topics are allowed, so those who are easily offended by certain topics may want to avoid such threads. Members are expected to keep the discussions friendly and polite and to avoid personal attacks on other members. The moderators reserve the right to shut down a thread without warning if they believe it necessary.
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Telynor
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Post by Telynor » Mon October 6th, 2008, 9:01 pm

It's sickening. I intend to vote against returning my congresscritter -- Kirsten Gillibrand -- back into Congress. She's failed in her job, as far as I am concerned, and I've gotten into the habit of sending daily emails. Why not, after all? I (and other NY taxpayers) are paying her bills. I say -- vote every incumbent out of office this year -- the entire House of Representatives is up for elections this year, along with a third of the Senate. And don't forget your state and local elected officials as well.

I figure that J and I have lost about 25% of our savings and investments this year so far. We're holding on, but just barely.

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donroc
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Post by donroc » Mon October 6th, 2008, 9:05 pm

At the very least, the entire oversight committee in the House and those in the Senate Finance committee who are running for reelection should be dumped.
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diamondlil
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Post by diamondlil » Mon October 6th, 2008, 11:06 pm

[quote=""Telynor""]It's sickening. I intend to vote against returning my congresscritter -- Kirsten Gillibrand -- back into Congress. She's failed in her job, as far as I am concerned, and I've gotten into the habit of sending daily emails. Why not, after all? I (and other NY taxpayers) are paying her bills. I say -- vote every incumbent out of office this year -- the entire House of Representatives is up for elections this year, along with a third of the Senate. And don't forget your state and local elected officials as well.

I figure that J and I have lost about 25% of our savings and investments this year so far. We're holding on, but just barely.[/quote]

I do get what you are saying, but doesn't the quality of the replacements matter as well?
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Telynor
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Post by Telynor » Mon October 6th, 2008, 11:27 pm

[quote=""diamondlil""]I do get what you are saying, but doesn't the quality of the replacements matter as well?[/quote]

Yes it does. But sadly, as long as the US has the two party system, not much is going to change. Being the skeptical cynic that I am, I don't see it changing much, and the next lot is going to be as rotten as the one before, but at least I will have the satisfaction of kicking someone who isn't doing a good job out of that cozy nest they are in.

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diamondlil
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Post by diamondlil » Mon October 6th, 2008, 11:38 pm

Fair enough. We have a two party system here as well, and quite often there seems to be very little difference between the major options.
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Misfit
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Post by Misfit » Tue October 7th, 2008, 12:25 am

It's tough when there are no good choices, as I'm facing even state wide right now. Worse yet, the back biting and nasty nasty campaign ads are worse then ever. What a turn off.

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LCW
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Post by LCW » Tue October 7th, 2008, 12:48 am

Yep, the gloves are off and the campaigns are getting nasty! But I do give Obama credit for trying to rise above this BS and change the tone of political campaigns. Unfortunately McCain is sinking in the polls, is way behind in electoral votes, and more and more swing states are going towards Obama. His campaign is desperate and frantically going negative out of desperation. Obama tried to stay positive and talk about the issues but he has no choice but to respond to the vitriol coming from the right. In '04 John Kerry thought the American public was too smart to fall for the swiftboat BS with a President and VP who didn't even serve allowing an American hero to be denegrated on their behalf. Kerry thought it was beneath him to respond to such garbage and we all know how well that went, don't we?
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Divia
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Post by Divia » Tue October 7th, 2008, 3:31 am

I really think whoever wins will be a one termer. I just dont see these problems going away. And furthermore I dont think it matters who wins now. We are screwed no matter what. :(
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Leyland
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Post by Leyland » Tue October 7th, 2008, 1:08 pm

I hope the next administration can be tough enough to deny politicians who make decisions such as Barney Frank (D-MA) who forced (and I use the word deliberately) goverment sponsored organzations to lower standards in last decade or so to a degree that defies basic common sense in allowing people to have extraordinarily easy access to housing they can't afford in the long term - given that the value of the securities are based on an occasionally volatile industry, the real estate market. Both the Republicans and Democrats are to blame for failing American citizens this way. I put a bit more blame on the Dems because they are the party that pushed for the bills allowing the housing market to become glutted by their housing plans and policies. I doubt I'll vote for a single Democrat in November primarily because of Frank. It's that one bad apple syndrome for me. I've voted for Greens and other independents before, as well as Republicans, so I'm probably going to be a an independent protest voter this time around.

Here's some info about Frank's influence from Wiki:

Collapse of Government Sponsored Housing
Amidst the 2008 financial market turmoil, billionaire Rupert R. Murdoch has repeatedly pointed blame at Frank and a few others as the root cause of the recent housing crisis.[13] In a recent interview, Murdoch claimed that Frank's plan in the early nineties pushed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to make "bad" loans to "underprivileged" families.[14] An anonymous opinion piece published in The Wall Street Journal (owned by Murdoch's News Corp) on September 9, 2008 further describes Barney Frank as the Patron Saint of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.[15]

In 2003 Frank rejected Bush administration proposals for increased oversight of the mortgage lending industry and stated "These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis, the more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."[16] With the sub-prime collapse, the Bush administration changed course in 2008, and James B. Lockhart, the chief regulator of Fannie and Freddie, adjusted the companies’ lending standards so they could purchase as much as $40 billion in new subprime loans. Some in Congress praised the move."[17]

On July 14, 2008 in an interview on business news channel CNBC Frank said, "I think this is a case where Fannie and Freddie are fundamentally sound, that they are not in danger of going under. They're not the best investments these days from the long-term standpoint going back. I think they are in good shape going forward. They're in a housing market. I do think their prospects going forward are very solid. And in fact, we're going to do some things that are going to improve them."[18]

Conflict of Interest
Frank has collected tens of thousands of dollars from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in campaign contributions - $42,350 since 1989. Also, Frank's former boyfriend, Herb Moses, was an executive at Fannie Mae from 1991 to 1998, where he "helped develop many of Fannie Mae’s affordable housing and home improvement lending programs." The relationship ended around the same time Moses left the company to start a pottery business, and Frank continued support of the companies after the relationship ended.[19] Fox News reported that in 1991, "the year Moses was hired by Fannie, the Boston Globe reported that Frank pushed the agency to loosen regulations on mortgages for two- and three-family homes, even though they were defaulting at twice and five times the rate of single homes, respectively,


I'm troubled by Frank's seeming lack of independence from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac considering his romantic relationship with Herb Moses, the executive there. And is $42,350 a lot of campaign contribution money to accept from these companies? I think Frank ought to one of the career politicians that takes a huge fall for this financial disaster.

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Divia
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Post by Divia » Tue October 7th, 2008, 1:14 pm

Its all a bunch of crap. If you cant afford a house you cant afford a house. If you cant afford a 30o thou house then you cant afford it. Why the banks were giving money to these people is beyond me. And why these stupid people took it is beyond me. I daresay very few people live within their means these days and thats whats gotten us into this heap of trouble. :mad:
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