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What do you think of the Government bailout?

A place to debate issues or to rant about what's on your mind. In addition to discussions about historical fiction, books, the publishing industry, and history, discussions about current political, social, and religious issues and other topics are allowed, so those who are easily offended by certain topics may want to avoid such threads. Members are expected to keep the discussions friendly and polite and to avoid personal attacks on other members. The moderators reserve the right to shut down a thread without warning if they believe it necessary.
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donroc
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Post by donroc » Fri September 26th, 2008, 2:44 pm

[quote=""Leyland""]Yeah - I agree with the sentiment! There's so much more we can do with our money than what we have done (or not done concerning other social issues).

Please excuse my accountant's brain. I used to work for a bank in Charlotte NC where I was responsible for preparing the SEC reports, the Call Reports to the OCC and the regulatory reports to the Federal Reserve. This was about ten years ago - my, how things have changed![/quote]


We could use you both in the government and at some of the failed institutions.
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Bodo the Apostate, a novel set during the reign of Louis the Pious and end of the Carolingian Empire.

http://www.donaldmichaelplatt.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXZthhY6 ... annel_page

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Leyland
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Post by Leyland » Fri September 26th, 2008, 3:00 pm

Nah, Don! I've been in public accounting now for the past seven years and have gotten used to tax season abuse. :D However, if I should be required to come to the aid and service of my fellow Americans - I surely would.
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams ~ Arthur O'Shaughnessy, Ode

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Misfit
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Post by Misfit » Fri September 26th, 2008, 3:12 pm

I haven't read up enough yet (yeah, I know I'm bad) on the proposed bailout, but I do not like the fact that we keep making mistakes and doing stupid things and then expect the government to bail us out. That's not how one learns from their mistakes. Me, I've been a little credit card stupid but instead of being a victim I've cut expenses and I'm not going on leisure trips - even with the air miles you still end up spending money on food, rental cards, etc. More time for reading that way anyway :p

It's not just consumers at fault, it's the banks as well and I'm not talking about mortgages. I've had a few current and former customers of my company who have filed personal bankruptcy in the last six months or so, and when I looked at the financial statement I was just floored at not only the large number of multiple credit cards they had obtained and the amounts owing on same cards was mind numbing. Especially with one couple who we know are incapable of paying a bill the boss and I were scratching our heads wondering WTH the banks were thinking granting them that much credit.

But, government makes it so easy to file bankruptcy with little or no shame and off they go on their merry ways. I even had a customer who filed a couple of years ago and he'd sent papa in Poland $20K as repayment for a *cough* loan along with a nice refi on the house that they frittered away, yet they got their debts discharged with nary a slap on the hand.

Here's a fun example -- I know of a business owner that filed suit against his bank when he defaulted. He claimed that it was the bank's fault for loaning them more money than they were able to repay. OK........

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LCW
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Post by LCW » Fri September 26th, 2008, 4:08 pm

Everytime I turn on the news I get nauseated!! This is just an awful situation to be in and there is plenty of blame to go around, starting with those who pushed for and allowed so much irresponsible deregulation of the market.

It's clear that some form of a "bailout" is needed but what as to what form it will take is "beyond my paygrade" to try to form an opinion on. What I do want to know, and what not one single politician or appointee has addressed, is where does this huge figure of 700 billion dollars come from?? Is that the exact value of the bad morgatge debt and the casualties that come along with it? Is it what is required to square off the debt plus inject more money into a sluggish market? Where did this astronimical sum come from? I want to know who came up with this figure and I want the justification for it itemized and put on the internet for American's to inspect!!

And while we're on the subject!!! Why can we borrow nearly a trillion dollars in a corporate welfare plan (so much "free market" proponents) and billions of dollars for a war but we can't provide American's with health insurance, can't fix our schools, and can't fix our roads?? Nice priorities there, Mr. Government!!!
Books to the ceiling,
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LCW
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Post by LCW » Fri September 26th, 2008, 4:11 pm

[quote=""sweetpotatoboy""]I think what's p*ssing off most people outside the US is that we've all now been affected by something happened almost exclusively in the US market.

[/quote]


Well, to be fair, the strength of the US economy and the buying power of our consumers has created countless jobs around the world and has supported the economies of entire nations! Sometimes you gotta take the bitter with the sweet, ya know!
Books to the ceiling,
Books to the sky,
My pile of books is a mile high.
How I love them! How I need them!
I'll have a long beard by the time I read them. --Arnold Lobel

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donroc
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Post by donroc » Fri September 26th, 2008, 4:22 pm

Here in Florida, more than a few Europeans and South Americans also became involved in the house-flipping schemes as well as investing in our institutions and markets.
Last edited by donroc on Fri September 26th, 2008, 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

Bodo the Apostate, a novel set during the reign of Louis the Pious and end of the Carolingian Empire.

http://www.donaldmichaelplatt.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXZthhY6 ... annel_page

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Leyland
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Post by Leyland » Fri September 26th, 2008, 4:31 pm

[quote=""1lila1""]but we can't provide American's with health insurance, can't fix our schools, and can't fix our roads?? Nice priorities there, Mr. Government!!![/quote]

Quick question - aren't road and school repairs and maintenance administered by local and state governments and funded primarily through local tax revenue? The federal government is not typically involved at that level, correct? Federal funding might be required, but the local school boards and state level DOT's have to ask. Does the federal government (Mr. Govenment?) refuse to assist with funding, in your opinion, 1lila1?

I'd hate for the funds required to continue war activities and the credit crisis financial bailout cause the federal government to refuse to properly fund schools and roads. How much has the shortfall been in the past?

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LCW
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Post by LCW » Fri September 26th, 2008, 4:49 pm

[quote=""Leyland""]Quick question - aren't road and school repairs and maintenance administered by local and state governments and funded primarily through local tax revenue? The federal government is not typically involved at that level, correct? Federal funding might be required, but the local school boards and state level DOT's have to ask. Does the federal government (Mr. Govenment?) refuse to assist with funding, in your opinion, 1lila1?
[/quote]


Yes, they are administered at state and local levels but money from the Federal budget does go to these things. To say it's not involved, IMO, isn't correct. Of course, it's involved! It holds a significant part of the purse strings for these projects!

And don't even get me started on the way schools in this country are funded! That's a whole other rant/topic! ;)

My point is that when the Government, whether local, state, or federal, WANTS to fund something it finds a way! And as an American and a taxpayer, I find that the easiest, although admittedly simplistic, way to look at a government's priorities (despite it's rhetoric) is to look at where it puts its money!!
Books to the ceiling,
Books to the sky,
My pile of books is a mile high.
How I love them! How I need them!
I'll have a long beard by the time I read them. --Arnold Lobel

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princess garnet
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Post by princess garnet » Sat September 27th, 2008, 1:35 pm

Suze Orman has this article on her website. There are additional articles in the same section.
If you get MSNBC, her show airs Saturdays at 9 pm and midnight.

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Telynor
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Post by Telynor » Sat September 27th, 2008, 8:13 pm

This mess has been brewing for a long long time. Without any oversight to lending practices, 'easy credit', and people spending far too more than what they earn has lead us to this catastrophe. Would putting nearly a trillion dollars into the system help -- not really. I'm really against the 'golden parachutes' for the CEO's that ruined their companies.

It's greed that fuelled this crash (and it is a crash, but no one in government has the b---s to say so), along with one of the worst administrations in this country's history. It's been building ever since Reagan took office in '81.

The only way to stabilize this mess is to get the country working again, and nail the companies that have tremendous tax breaks. Everyone of us in the middle and lower classes pay our taxes, and do it without grumbling. But large corporations with their lobbyists get handouts that are just too much. Revamping the tax system so that it is fair and equitiable for everyone would be a step in the right direction. If you're heavily in debt now, smartest thing to do is to get yourself out of debt, pay down your bills, and knuckle under and learn to live under a budget. It's not that hard to get out of debt, and once you do so, it's a very good feeling.

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