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What do you think of the Government bailout?

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Divia
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What do you think of the Government bailout?

Post by Divia » Fri September 26th, 2008, 10:25 am

First, I'm not gonna agrue the the republicans messedit up or that the dems did. Truth of the matter is whats done is done.

A part of me is a little upset at some people who thought they could afford
300 thousand dollar houses when they say oh only make 80 grand a year. Why would you ever think you can afford such a house? And our society just plain sucks. Credit. credit. credit. I dont see why people failed to see this was a good idea. Hello 1929 anyone?

I'm on the fence about the bailout. I really want to hear it from a UK perspective because at least I think they would be a little more neutral in it. I cant trust the republicans or the dems.

What do you think?
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sweetpotatoboy
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Post by sweetpotatoboy » Fri September 26th, 2008, 10:54 am

I think what's p*ssing off most people outside the US is that we've all now been affected by something happened almost exclusively in the US market.

The main reason it's p*ssing me off is that I work in the financial sector, so obviously job security is a worry. Thankfully, so far, so OK, and we've been living with instability since last year. But I'm not actually at a bank and would be hesitant to join any bank right now (though there's one potential opportunity I'm considering).

Also, and importantly, I'm needing to be completely up to date with what's going on, so my reading time is spent on that, with little time for leisure reading... :mad:

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donroc
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Post by donroc » Fri September 26th, 2008, 11:02 am

I also believe there is plenty of blame for both parties and two Presidents and what has been done must now be fixed.

Two areas that should be handled negatively in my opinion.

1. No golden parachutes for any CEO who ran his/her company into the ground by dealing with bad paper.

2. No bailout/aid for house flippers and people who falsified applications to obtain a mortage for homes they could not afford if the RE market went south as it did.

3. Jail time for all lenders engaged in fraud.

What must be done:

1. Ensure banks can and will lend to qualified home buyers and businesses.
2. Readjust mortgages for those who can show proof of fraud by mortgage lenders so they can keep her homes.
3. Aid to those who lost their homes through fraud by lenders.

Alas, "the devil will be in the details."
Last edited by donroc on Sat September 27th, 2008, 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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http://www.donaldmichaelplatt.com
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Leyland
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Post by Leyland » Fri September 26th, 2008, 1:36 pm

I'm in agreement with Donroc about solutions for the problem. I also agree with Divia about people buying McMansions they couldn't afford - what did they think would happen? It's like that commercial with the guy barbecueing in his yard as he describes all the expensive items he has and says the only way to afford it all is to be in debt 'up to his eyeballs'.

If every American is like this, then we're toast!! Is it fair to say that greed and/or the need for instant gratification is a root cause for our credit disaster? Or is the average American so clueless that a scam or fraudulant lender has such easy success?

I have a managable amount of 'good debt' in that I only have a mortgage on a fairly modest property of which I own just more than 50% equity - the bank owning the rest! No car payment on the six year old car and no credit card debt I can't pay off each month. The idea of being seriously in debt for so much more than I can afford scares me like you wouldn't believe! I've been somewhat deep in credit card before, so I learned my lesson and got myself out on my own.

So the US doesn't have universal health care, but we will have universal mortgage care.
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams ~ Arthur O'Shaughnessy, Ode

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MLE (Emily Cotton)
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Post by MLE (Emily Cotton) » Fri September 26th, 2008, 1:51 pm

The problem with blaming the government is that we are a society where people are free to make their own financial choices. We like this part.

But then, people start out their lives by making stupid coices. That's how we learn. Then we feel bad, for ourselves or for others, when the consequences come home. So we want the government to fix it.

Those in government depend on votes. And it's not their money. So they do what it takes to fix it. But since this gets between people and the valuable lessons they need to learn to succeed in the next round, they don't learn. Believe me, you couldn't train a dog this way -- and people are a lot smarter and more self-interested than dogs.

Both parties had people doing stupid things, but that pales in comparison to the stupid choices consumers will make, grabbing for what they cannot yet afford, and the venial choices corporate smucks will make to get richer. If we can't stand to watch the pain of letting the market correct itself (where many innocent people get hurt along with the guilty, just like everything else in life) then we should realize we are choosing the frustration of cradle-to-grave nanny state government.

But for the record, the president has about as much control of the economy as a surfer has of a wave. He just rides it in and hopes it won't kill him. I know more now about Herbert Hoover, and the depression had almost nothing to do with him; and as for the 'fix' FDR did, it was the beginning of the nanny-state that now has us committed to 'do something' and created the problem of the baby boom coming up to retirement and expecting social security, with little per capita savings. We didn't have enough kids to make that happen, regardless of government choices. Do the math.

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donroc
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Post by donroc » Fri September 26th, 2008, 2:01 pm

I received this amusing email that almost makes sense:



If you are against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout here is a plan that could work.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child.
So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It Dividend.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.

A husband and wife team has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college - it'll be there

Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who
lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting
back. And, of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of
trickling out a puny $1000.00 ('vote buy') economic incentive that is being
proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

What about the Wallstreet loans..... liquidate them

Sell off its parts.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can will never happen...but the numbers are wild.

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion



And remember, This plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5
Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.
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Bodo the Apostate, a novel set during the reign of Louis the Pious and end of the Carolingian Empire.

http://www.donaldmichaelplatt.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXZthhY6 ... annel_page

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Leyland
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Post by Leyland » Fri September 26th, 2008, 2:12 pm

[quote=""MLE""]and as for the 'fix' FDR did, it was the beginning of the nanny-state that now has us committed to 'do something' and created the problem of the baby boom coming up to retirement and expecting social security, with little per capita savings. We didn't have enough kids to make that happen, regardless of government choices. Do the math.[/quote]

I'm fortunate in that I won't need to use my 401k savings for at least 20-25 years so I'm not in a panic about the fluctuating balance in my account being 'corrected' every quarter when I view the statement. I'll keep contributing every pay period for those next 20 years and wear my rose colored glasses in the expectation that I'll have made money on those contribs all along throughout these market ups and downs. It sure will be nice if I get Social Security benefits too, but won't hold my breath on that.

I also hope my home/property is serving as a dependable investment as well, and I'll be able to sell it for a nice profit come the day I need to move into a senior assisted living complex! ;)
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams ~ Arthur O'Shaughnessy, Ode

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Leyland
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Post by Leyland » Fri September 26th, 2008, 2:18 pm

Donroc -

$85,000,000,000.00 divided by 200,000,000 is $425. Not $425,000. Did I miss something?
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams ~ Arthur O'Shaughnessy, Ode

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donroc
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Post by donroc » Fri September 26th, 2008, 2:25 pm

I think the sender may be mathmatically challenged, but it was the spirit of the thing that amused me. :D
Last edited by donroc on Fri September 26th, 2008, 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bodo the Apostate, a novel set during the reign of Louis the Pious and end of the Carolingian Empire.

http://www.donaldmichaelplatt.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXZthhY6 ... annel_page

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Leyland
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Post by Leyland » Fri September 26th, 2008, 2:38 pm

Yeah - I agree with the sentiment! There's so much more we can do with our money than what we have done (or not done concerning other social issues).

Please excuse my accountant's brain. I used to work for a bank in Charlotte NC where I was responsible for preparing the SEC reports, the Call Reports to the OCC and the regulatory reports to the Federal Reserve. This was about ten years ago - my, how things have changed!
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams ~ Arthur O'Shaughnessy, Ode

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