To Our Forum Members in London

[Divia]

[quote=""Madeleine""]Ok so far although the local shopping centre was barricaded yesterday.

They need to bring in the army and turn water cannon on them.[/quote]

Yeah and thats what I dont get. I mean its going onto its 4th day and the gov. just seems to be sitting back and doing nothing. I'm confused.

I also read somewhere that they werent' sure if they wanted to use rubber bullets or water on these thugs. Teens or not they know not to riot. Force is needed, but then again I'm American.

[Telynor]

We get the news over there in drips and dabs. The BBC world feed is a bit more comprehensive, but still, not really much. Tanzanite, I am so glad to hear that your daughter will be coming home soon, that must be a tremendous load off your mind. And I hope the rest of you over there stay safe and secure, it must be very unnerving to have all this going on.

[Miss Moppet]

[quote=""Divia""]Yeah and thats what I dont get. I mean its going onto its 4th day and the gov. just seems to be sitting back and doing nothing. I'm confused.

I also read somewhere that they werent' sure if they wanted to use rubber bullets or water on these thugs. Teens or not they know not to riot. Force is needed, but then again I'm American.[/quote]

The British police has a long history of using minimal force and the majority of the force don't carry guns, although you do see armed police sometimes (as I did when the Met popped round to stakeout the local drug dealer). The payoff is fewer casualties - the shooting that sparked the riots is not a common incident, and although last night saw the worst rioting in London in living memory, so far only one death has been confirmed. If they bring in water cannon and rubber bullets, it may escalate the violence instead of calming it. Nevertheless I'm in favour of stronger measures if necessary and hope they have the desired effect.

There's been a lot of talk about bringing the army in but I wonder if it's even possible. The armed forces have been steadily cut by the government in past years and are overstretched as it is. The police have suffered cuts as well. Yet it's never been clearer that they are all that stands between us and anarchy.

The worst violence seems to be happening in Manchester and Salford tonight - another area I know very well having lived nearby for many years and studied in Salford. The Greater Manchester police are doing their best but overstretched too, ironically because they sent officers down to London, which is fairly stable tonight thanks to the increased police presence.

We get the news over there in drips and dabs. The BBC world feed is a bit more comprehensive, but still, not really much.

Anyone wanting to follow events in more detail can check out the UK newspaper live feeds. I'm following the Guardian updates.

Thanks everyone for your good wishes.

[Misfit]

[quote=""Miss Moppet""]The British police has a long history of using minimal force and the majority of the force don't carry guns, although you do see armed police sometimes (as I did when the Met popped round to stakeout the local drug dealer). The payoff is fewer casualties - the shooting that sparked the riots is not a common incident, and although last night saw the worst rioting in London in living memory, so far only one death has been confirmed. If they bring in water cannon and rubber bullets, it may escalate the violence instead of calming it. Nevertheless I'm in favour of stronger measures if necessary and hope they have the desired effect.

There's been a lot of talk about bringing the army in but I wonder if it's even possible. The armed forces have been steadily cut by the government in past years and are overstretched as it is. The police have suffered cuts as well. Yet it's never been clearer that they are all that stands between us and anarchy.

The worst violence seems to be happening in Manchester and Salford tonight - another area I know very well having lived nearby for many years and studied in Salford. The Greater Manchester police are doing their best but overstretched too, ironically because they sent officers down to London, which is fairly stable tonight thanks to the increased police presence.



Anyone wanting to follow events in more detail can check out the UK newspaper live feeds. I'm following the Guardian updates.

Thanks everyone for your good wishes.[/quote]

I can see the logic in that, and perhaps we're a bit more accustomed to it here but there comes a time when you have to let them know you are serious. There are usually specially trained officers for some of these duties. Egads, one time we had some members of Seattle's SWAT team stop by the office to shop for materials, and even though they were on break they were fully armed. That's some serious equipment they carry with them. I had thought the officer who testified during a round of jury duty was carrying a lot, but these guys put him to shame.

[Miss Moppet]

[quote=""Misfit""]I can see the logic in that, and perhaps we're a bit more accustomed to it here but there comes a time when you have to let them know you are serious. There are usually specially trained officers for some of these duties. [/quote]

That's it, although there's been talk of using water cannon it turns out that (a) there are no cannon on the mainland because they've never been used here, they would have to be brought over from Northern Ireland and (b) very few officers are trained to use them.

[Misfit]

[quote=""Miss Moppet""]That's it, although there's been talk of using water cannon it turns out that (a) there are no cannon on the mainland because they've never been used here, they would have to be brought over from Northern Ireland and (b) very few officers are trained to use them.[/quote]

Here, even the smaller police forces - and by "small" I mean a city small compared to say Seattle or Tacoma - have special trained officers. HazMat, Swat, whatever. They may need them, they may not, but they are there. Now the really really really small towns in parts of central/eastern/southern Washington state are another story entirely....

[Divia]

I really think the police officers over there need to be trained better. It seems like they dont know how to handle the situation. I would think in this day and age with terrorists and the like people would be ready for these things. If nothing else I'm sure that those at the top will be looking at this and refining their techniques.


I'm not worried about the rioters. i m woried about your average joe person.

[Michy]

[quote=""Miss Moppet""]There is a lot of speculation at the moment as to the causes. The inciting incident was the shooting of Mark Duggan by police, but the main motive of the rioters seems to be theft rather than protest. Some people, such as Ken Livingstone, the former Mayor of London, are saying that it's a response to the economic crisis, lack of jobs, cuts to social services, etc. Others are saying it's mindless violence and opportunism by career criminals. Over 500 arrests have been made and it's definitely not all teenagers, although it seems the majority are under 30. Also, a lot of them don't live in the areas being attacked.



[/quote] The "cause" is probably a combination of all these factors. Tough economic times often bring out the worst in people and hasn't Britain in particular been in an austerity mode for some time now?

[quote=""Miss Moppet""]The British police has a long history of using minimal force and the majority of the force don't carry guns,[/quote] It's hard for me to imagine how a police force could maintain law and order -- especially in a huge city such as London -- without weapons. Unless the Brits are normally just better behaved than we Yanks. A cop without even a gun seems to me to be little more than a private security guard (we call them "rent-a-cops"), and certainly nobody pays them much mind.

I hope things calm down and get back to normal soon.

[Rowan]

After chatting with an American friend who has friends in the UK as I do, I decided to sign up for a Twitter account. I think for real-time information about anything going on outside your own country, Twitter is the best way to go. Events in Egypt taught us that.

I have one friend in London who is blind. She's the one I worried about most until I saw last night on Facebook two other friends who live in Gloucester were posting mobile photos of police officers in the street just outside their flat.

I know there's been a claim that this is due to the increase in student fees for university and other factors, but I don't see how kids who truly care about going to university would do something like this.

I think this article probably sums it up best. I saw it this morning on Yahoo! UK.

I hope the worst is over, but I guess we have to wait and see.

[Ken]

Not all the looters are dangerous!!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Sinet-Int ... 4&comments