Welcome to the Historical Fiction Online forums: a friendly place to discuss, review and discover historical fiction.
If this is your first visit, please be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above.
You will have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.
To start viewing posts, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

The Worst Thing Today

User avatar
Vanessa
Bibliomaniac
Currently reading: The Survivors by Kate Furnivall & The Corset by Laura Purcell (Pigeonhole)
Interest in HF: The first historical novel I read was Katherine by Anya Seton and this sparked off my interest in this genre.
Favorite HF book: Gone with the Wind by Margaret Mitchell!
Preferred HF: Any
Location: North Yorkshire, UK

Postby Vanessa » Wed June 8th, 2011, 8:28 am

That sounds to be an awful situation to be in, Brenna. I hope things improve, too.

Here's hoping, Diane. Fingers crossed for you.
currently reading: My Books on Goodreads

Books are mirrors, you only see in them what you already have inside you ~ The Shadow of the Wind

User avatar
Brenna
Bibliophile
Location: Delaware

Postby Brenna » Wed June 8th, 2011, 2:08 pm

Thanks Brian and Vanessa. It's the nature of working in a smaller organization and mostly women. I know sterotype, but we aren't the friendliest species (I call men their own species all the time, so hence the reference). It's also the nature of my personality, I just have one of those "you either love me or don't" which is unfortunate because of course I want to be loved by everyone! :D Thank goodness for books!

Diane-I've had a similar experience with a friend who was diagnosed with Stage 4 brain cancer. My cousin died at 26 from the same type and so it has been difficult to be around my friend because of the flashbacks, but you can do it!! You just have to remember that she is still the same person that you love and care about and she needs you more now than ever. Everything slowly falls away after that. Good luck to you and your friend!
Brenna

BrianPK
Reader
Location: Ireland

Postby BrianPK » Wed June 8th, 2011, 2:54 pm

"Brenna" wrote:It's the nature of working in a smaller organization and mostly women. I know sterotype, but we aren't the friendliest species (I call men their own species all the time, so hence the reference). It's also the nature of my personality, I just have one of those "you either love me or don't" which is unfortunate because of course I want to be loved by everyone! :D Thank goodness for books!


I've found (I,think:confused :) that women,in general, tend to either love or dislike each other and emotion has a large part to play in their relationships,whereas men tend to be more emotionally indifferent to other men i.e. neither over friendly or over hostile.But pettiness and mischief making seems to be shared equally by the sexes.
I think that discovering ,in your late teens or early twenties that people aren't necessarily as nice,helpful or agreeable as yourself can be a shock and also realizing, that a lot of people ,unfortunately, seem to get pleasure from being nasty.But we can only make the best of circumstances.

User avatar
Vanessa
Bibliomaniac
Currently reading: The Survivors by Kate Furnivall & The Corset by Laura Purcell (Pigeonhole)
Interest in HF: The first historical novel I read was Katherine by Anya Seton and this sparked off my interest in this genre.
Favorite HF book: Gone with the Wind by Margaret Mitchell!
Preferred HF: Any
Location: North Yorkshire, UK

Postby Vanessa » Wed June 8th, 2011, 3:30 pm

Women can be such bitches. Give me my dog any day! :D
currently reading: My Books on Goodreads

Books are mirrors, you only see in them what you already have inside you ~ The Shadow of the Wind

User avatar
Madeleine
Bibliomaniac
Currently reading: Heavenfield by L J Ross & Lost for Words by Stephanie Butland
Preferred HF: Plantagenets, Victorian, crime
Location: Essex/London

Postby Madeleine » Wed June 8th, 2011, 3:59 pm

Yup, I think women can be really mean, especially to other women.

Is there another part of the office or company you could move to Brenna, maybe not immediately but perhaps sometime in the future? I don't think being cooped up together in a fairly small space helps either, added to any work pressures or tensions that there might be; it can be a recipe for disaster.
Currently reading "Heavenfield" by L J Ross & "Lost for Words" by Stephanie Butland

BrianPK
Reader
Location: Ireland

Postby BrianPK » Wed June 8th, 2011, 11:31 pm

A no. of years ago my wife worked in a company with approx. ten other women who were much younger than her so they looked up to her to some extent as a sort of mother figure. She often complained to me about the silly quarrels and non-stop back biting that she witnessed amongst the others. She began to realize that she was also probably on the receiving end of such behaviour. Eventually she rounded on a few of the more obvious culprits and warned them that she didn't care what they said about her behind her back but if she ever found out about it, the trouble maker would be in real trouble. When she was at home later on, she laughingly told me that the alarmed and guilty expressions on the girls faces were a sight to behold. That particular horse had long bolted :D

User avatar
DianeL
Bibliophile
Location: Midatlantic east coast, United States
Contact:

Postby DianeL » Wed June 8th, 2011, 11:47 pm

Brenna, thank you so much, and Vanessa too.

I have no worst things to report today. But I do agree, the unfortunate side effect of society's tendency to rear women as if we must all be in constant competition with each other is that working with or for them can be a huge PITA. Speaking as a card-carrying Enlightened Feminist with friends who own their very own liberal intellectual ivory towers, I hate working for women, and avoid it at most costs. Such a shame the way we're socialized - even the desire to be liked feeds the dynamic. *Bleah*
"To be the queen, she agreed to be the widow!"

***

The pre-modern world was willing to attribute charisma to women well before it was willing to attribute sustained rationality to them.
---Medieval Kingship, Henry A. Myers

***

http://dianelmajor.blogspot.com/
I'm a Twit: @DianeLMajor

User avatar
MLE (Emily Cotton)
Bibliomaniac
Interest in HF: started in childhood with the classics, which, IMHO are HF even if they were contemporary when written.
Favorite HF book: Prince of Foxes, by Samuel Shellabarger
Preferred HF: Currently prefer 1600 and earlier, but I'll read anything that keeps me turning the page.
Location: California Bay Area

Postby MLE (Emily Cotton) » Thu June 9th, 2011, 12:06 am

Hey, this dumping on women bosses is pretty stereotypical! I can think of bosses of both genders who have been pains, and also the reverse. Diane, if you have never worked for a woman who was a great boss, you need to go and try it now! It will take the ivory tower out of your feminism.

One reason I don't like 'isms' is that they put people into boxes even while loudly proclaiming a desire to acheive the opposite.

Also tired of the 'socialization' excuse. People make choices to be nice or nasty. They should own that, and we should let them.

User avatar
DianeL
Bibliophile
Location: Midatlantic east coast, United States
Contact:

Postby DianeL » Thu June 9th, 2011, 12:47 am

MLE, I don't have an ivory tower, I said I am close with those who do. I personally tend to put off many feminists, but then I put off everyone else too (see also: you, it seems). I also never said men were saints relative to women - and if you understood me to be putting anyone into a box, you misunderstand me.

Please don't think that because I recognize the byproducts of nasty socialization I feel we're all reduced to them. The fact is, 43 years observing human beings individually has taught me how many of us make the choice to stick with convention, to internalize stereotypes, and not to break them. It wasn't my intention to offend anybody, but it IS what I see in a lot of people's behavior. This does not translate to my believing all people fit in a particular box, and in fact I rarely proclaim anything at all. This doesn't mean I don't have beliefs, though.

My 25 years experience in corporate America has indicated to me that working for women is not ideal. It has also indicated to me that working for multiple managers isn't ideal, but I bet that statement wouldn't offend anybody - even though exactly the same outlook and intellect inform the opinion.

I'm not a great believer in political rectitude, nor much of any rectitude at all. I find it hard to entirely trust anyone who believes they're right without question. Likewise, I am in no way irrevocable in my commitment to certain types of opinions, though it reads as if you're presuming that out of my character. I'd respectfully submit that I may not be completely familiar to you: and proclamations are not my style. I mention that I am a feminist not because I want to holler about it, but to contextualize what I had to say, and in fact to point out that I may not seem a "typical" ism-ist, actually.

For me, it comes down to behavior; and I have seen far more insufferable-boss behavior from women than I have from men. Experience has led me to come to my own conclusions about why we act the way we do; that isn't uncommon, and I think it's personally valid as long as we keep open minds - and it's what informs what has been said here. This way of thinking is a necessary function of my brain, but it's not anything I require anyone to accept from me. I'm sorry to have upset you, but unfortunately my life's lessons still are what they are.

Central lesson I have learned: a lot of people really don't want to own personal choices, and in fact conform precisely to give themselves an out from feeling they must do so. I don't say "everybody" - or all women - or all men - or all those with a particular trait of some sort or another. I don't even say a majority of people; we tend to be too shifting and subjective a lot for that kind of judgment. Just an awful lot of people I have come into contact take the easy - socialized - way out. I never said your mileage may not vary.

I also never said I believe good female bosses are a myth or a fantasy. But, of the women I could choose from right now, I'd still prefer the gig I am blessed with right now.
Last edited by DianeL on Thu June 9th, 2011, 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
"To be the queen, she agreed to be the widow!"



***



The pre-modern world was willing to attribute charisma to women well before it was willing to attribute sustained rationality to them.

---Medieval Kingship, Henry A. Myers



***



http://dianelmajor.blogspot.com/

I'm a Twit: @DianeLMajor

User avatar
Brenna
Bibliophile
Location: Delaware

Postby Brenna » Thu June 9th, 2011, 2:06 pm

Thank you everyone for the support and the commentary! Vanessa, in my last post, I should have included "thank goodness for my puppy as well" because lord knows where I would be without him!

I said in the beginning of my posts that I didn't mean to sterotype but that my experience is...and Diane it looks like we are one in the same..things we say can me miscontrued so easily (this is not a swipe MLE, I promise!!) and then we are left going WTH just happened here?

Unfortunately, the organization I work for is so small, there is very little opportunity to "move" but I do have an office with a door that I close ALOT! I just find it unfortunate that as women, we do feel the need to be nasty with each other because I don't think it was always that way. Or at least my mother tells me all the time that my generation was never taught how to be nice and to me "friends" with each other. However, I am one of the few people of my generation working here, so what is her generation's excuse?

Oh well! The Serenity prayer helps-some days I need the serenity, others I need the wisdom.
Brenna


Return to “Chat”