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Arizona tragedy...A humbling Comment

A place to debate issues or to rant about what's on your mind. In addition to discussions about historical fiction, books, the publishing industry, and history, discussions about current political, social, and religious issues and other topics are allowed, so those who are easily offended by certain topics may want to avoid such threads. Members are expected to keep the discussions friendly and polite and to avoid personal attacks on other members. The moderators reserve the right to shut down a thread without warning if they believe it necessary.
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LoveHistory
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Post by LoveHistory » Thu January 13th, 2011, 8:50 pm

[quote=""Michy""]I think there has been much too much of a rush to tie what this guy did to the ugly political rhetoric that goes on. It is not known what his true motives were, the FBI is still investigating. I heard tonight on the news that they're finding evidence that looks like he has been fixated/obsessed with Gabby Giffords for quite some time. Some neighbors of the Loughners were interviewed, who said the family has kept itself pretty much isolated from the neighborhood. So there might very well have been some unhealthy things going on in the home and the family that contributed to the guy's mental instability.[/quote]

Or perhaps the family limited their socializing because of his instability.

Ash
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Post by Ash » Fri January 14th, 2011, 1:14 am

Does anyone else get bothered by the way the media describes the perpetrators of these things? A loner, reads lots of books, uncomfortable in social situations, keeps to himself. Its like they are linking those traits with being an insane killer (which I think he is, but still - they may be traits I share but that doesn't make me a bad person) I do agree, I think in this case the parents were isolated because of the son.

There may very well not be a link between this man and the rhetoric. But the fact is the rhetoric used was inflammatory and totally unnecessary. I just wish people would realize that words do matter, and the way we use words sometimes has consequences, maybe not in this case, but in other situations.

BTW Divia, MSNBC may be 'liberal', but it is not supported by a political party. Just saying.

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Divia
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Post by Divia » Fri January 14th, 2011, 1:48 am

[quote=""Ash""]There may very well not be a link between this man and the rhetoric. But the fact is the rhetoric used was inflammatory and totally unnecessary. I just wish people would realize that words do matter, and the way we use words sometimes has consequences, maybe not in this case, but in other situations. [/quote]

That's human nature. Its always been like that and will always be like that, I cannot see that changing.
BTW Divia, MSNBC may be 'liberal', but it is not supported by a political party. Just saying.
And that somehow makes it...better?

How about we get rid of all the crap, liberal conservative and have people just report the news without giving me their little pearls of wisdom.
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Ash
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Post by Ash » Fri January 14th, 2011, 3:28 am

How about we get rid of all the crap, liberal conservative and have people just report the news without giving me their little pearls of wisdom

I have been wanting that for a long time.

My comment about MSNBC not being supported by a political party does make a difference. There is no question that Fox gets funding from Republicans, if not also from the party itself. Thats a lot of money, and they have the means to get their message out in ways that other agencies can't.

I'd also suggest that much of the left during the Bush years was a disorganized mess, and didn't really come to the forefront till towards the end. I agree they ofter were vitrolic, but I think their influence was much different than the influence that folk like Palin, Beck and Gingrich have now.

chuck
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Post by chuck » Fri January 14th, 2011, 4:10 am

Considering boycotting all Cable News programs.....For now I'm going to watch only Nightly Network news and my favorite the John Stewart Show......So sick of heart at Cable News pundits and their rants and bickering speculations.....BTW Mental Health awareness campaigns and intervention programs are needed NOW......

Ash
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Post by Ash » Fri January 14th, 2011, 9:09 am

Interesting letter to the editor this morning:

The real issue is not whether inflammatory political rhetoric caused the Tucson shooting. It’s the fact that so many people initially assumed that it did.

People’s initial belief that the shooter was motivated by political hostility demonstrates that there is a pervasive sense in America that our politics have degenerated into hatred and risk boiling over into violence. It’s as if the events of the weekend showed us how scared and unnerved we really are.

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Divia
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Post by Divia » Fri January 14th, 2011, 11:02 am

The American people tend to be stupid. Never once did I believe it was because of right wing talk. He was crazy. Why dont we blame violent video games, and rap music while we are at it too. :rolleyes:

The media was quick to jump on this, as they always are.


Everyone knows what Fox News is. It's not a secret.
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Ash
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Post by Ash » Sat January 15th, 2011, 2:26 pm

Politics aside: The Tucson Angels, the group that worked to set up a screen of mourners against the Jeff Phelps 'church' during the funerals, have set up a guest book for the families of the victims and for those injured. If you are interested in signing it, go here:

http://www.tucsonmemorial.org/gbook/index.php

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rockygirl
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Post by rockygirl » Sun January 16th, 2011, 12:48 am

[quote=""Michy""]I heard on the news this evening that the shooter is being charged with attempted assassination of Giffords, murder of her aide, murder of the Federal judge, and two counts of attempted murder. But what about the four other people he killed? Why isn't he being charged with those murders? Don't they matter?

I realize that all of the above counts are already enough to put him behind bars for the rest of his life. But still -- if I were a loved one of one of the other people killed, I would be upset that he wasn't charged with their murder, also.

The other man killed was apparently trying to shield his wife. She was wounded, but will be ok. I put myself in her shoes, and the emotions are unimaginable.[/quote]

Michy, I think that the Federal charges can only include the harm/murder to federal employees. The charges for the other victims will be county or state charges. No one has been forgotten--I'm guessing the legal beagles in Arizona are working on how best to put this guy away, and the federal statues were much clearer. At least, that's what I'm understanding from the experts on various news shows.

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