great individual rivalries

Kveto from Prague · Post by **Kveto from Prague** » Sat November 13th, 2010, 7:32 pm

something got me thinking about great rivalries in history. you know when two people were born in the same era and just seemed destined to clash at some point. and usually for whatever reason, one of them comes out on top. there are so many of these in history. lets see, Saladin and Richard Cour de Leon, Augustus and Cicero, Mary queen of scots and Elizabeth I, William the conqueror and Harold Godwinson, Charlemagne and Widikund

some others i like:

Micheal Paleogueus and charles of Anjou was a classic

Baibars and Louis IX

but my favourite is:

Peter the great and Charles XII of Sweden

the ultimate autocratic czar opposed by the ultimate soldier. a rivalry for the ages.

what are some that you like?

annis · Post by **annis** » Sun November 14th, 2010, 4:45 am

Flavius Aetius v Attila the Hun, the Duke of Wellington v Napoleon Bonaparte, Hannibal v Scipio Africanus, Darius III of Persia v Alexander the Great, Hitler v Winston Churchill

wendy · Post by **wendy** » Sun November 14th, 2010, 12:21 pm

I'm fascinated by literary rivalries too - Shakespeare v Marlowe, Byron v Shelley, Cather v Hemingway, Plath v Sexton.

Kveto from Prague · Post by **Kveto from Prague** » Wed November 17th, 2010, 2:02 am

cant believe i forgot scipio and hannibal

chuck · Post by **chuck** » Wed November 17th, 2010, 5:03 am

.....Elizabeth I and Phillip of Spain....Wm the Bastard and Harold Godwinson.....Achilles and Hector....George Armstrong Custer and Crazy Horse/Sitting Bull.....Billy the Kid and Pat Garrett....Patton and Montgomery....Rommel and Montgomery....Robert E Lee and U.S. Grant....Washington and Cornwallis

Michy · Post by **Michy** » Wed November 17th, 2010, 5:36 am

I don't know that I would consider Washington v. Cornwallis a "great rivalry" -- I don't know that each bore the other any personal animosity, or that either considered the other his nemesis. Cornwallis was just one of several British generals Washington was pitted against during the Revolutionary War. Cornwallis just happened to be the one leading the British during the Battle of Yorktown.

I wouldn't necessarily consider Lee v. Grant a great rivalry, either, for the same reason. Grant was just one of many Union generals during the war. And I don't know that Lee and the Union generals bore each other much if any animosity -- ?? After all, Lee had been offered the Union generalcy himself and turned it down not because he was opposed to the Union cause, but because of his unwavering loyalty to his home state of Virginia.

Someone has mentioned Hitler v. Churchill, but I think you could also say Hitler v. Roosevelt. And how about Elliott Ness v. Al Capone?

LoveHistory · Post by **LoveHistory** » Wed November 17th, 2010, 1:43 pm

Maybe not as exciting on an adrenaline type level, and certainly featuring less bloodshed, but Jay Gould vs the Vanderbilts.

Also Alexander Hamilton vs Thomas Jefferson.

chuck · Post by **chuck** » Wed November 17th, 2010, 3:47 pm

[quote=""Michy""]I don't know that I would consider Washington v. Cornwallis a "great rivalry" -- I don't know that each bore the other any personal animosity, or that either considered the other his nemesis. Cornwallis was just one of several British generals Washington was pitted against during the Revolutionary War. Cornwallis just happened to be the one leading the British during the Battle of Yorktown.

I wouldn't necessarily consider Lee v. Grant a great rivalry, either, for the same reason. Grant was just one of many Union generals during the war. And I don't know that Lee and the Union generals bore each other much if any animosity -- ?? After all, Lee had been offered the Union generalcy himself and turned it down not because he was opposed to the Union cause, but because of his unwavering loyalty to his home state of Virginia.

Someone has mentioned Hitler v. Churchill, but I think you could also say Hitler v. Roosevelt. And how about Elliott Ness v. Al Capone?

[/quote]

Wow..Your tough.....Regarding your thoughts on Washington versus.... I could have picked Burgoyne, Howe, Clinton but chose Cornwallis because of the Yorktown surrender....Regarding Lee v Grant....again so many Union generals came up against Lee....Grant started to win a few battles and slowly the tide turned against Lee and the South....I agree there was no real animosity with Washington's adversaries and the same with Lee and Grant....Most of them were at West Point together and many were good friends.....And of course all officers are "Gentlemen".....The sad thing is the men in the ranks and the civilians who became the casualties during the Revolutionary and the Civil wars..... Excuse my rant......

Michy · Post by **Michy** » Wed November 17th, 2010, 4:20 pm

It's the accountant in me, I guess. I blame everything on that.

Seriously, though, I'm not trying to be "tough," it's just that when I think of a "great rivalry" I think of something more than two people who just happened due to circumstances to be pitted against each other. To me, it implies a deeper animosity, on a personal and/or ideological level. But it's all a matter of opinion, anyway.

As for fictional characters -- how about Sherlock Holmes v. Professor Moriarty? There was also a female character mentioned in one of his books, whom Holmes considered his match (in an intellectual/competitive way, not a romantic way!

). It was all the more remarkable, of course, because she was a female.

Wish I could remember her name, or what book it was.....

chuck · Post by **chuck** » Wed November 17th, 2010, 5:16 pm

Rivalry by definition is difficult to interpret when it comes to personalities v personalities ....My world of Rivalry's is always about the famous College Football/Basketball Rivalries...Southern Cal v Notre Dame...Duke v North Carolina...Michigan v Ohio State....not so much with individuals.....To me more like arch enemies.....BTW..regarding Sherlock Holmes......Was it Lady Molly/...who was the detective in "The Woman in the Big Hat".....