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Dentistry in the past

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LoveHistory
Bibliomaniac
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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Postby LoveHistory » Tue August 24th, 2010, 3:39 pm

"keny from prague" wrote:Yeah, i know :-) Im having more fun over her statement that the fact that Elizabeth didnt have any children means she was a "virgin queen". I think thats a rather revolutionary definition of the term "virgin", not having any kids.


Given the lack of effective birth control methods actually that's a good measure right there.

Despite some questionable info in the book I just finished, there is a really good psychological basis for the idea that Elizabeth did stay a virgin.

Perhaps I should ask her when I do my "interview." :D

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EC2
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Location: Nottingham UK
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Postby EC2 » Tue August 24th, 2010, 3:49 pm

Gerald of Wales can be a terrible liar. You never know when he's telling the truth and when he's not - although that information about the Welsh sounds fairly kosher.
I have seen a 13thC pedlar's list that has toothbrushes listed - no idea what they looked like though. I have also seen a recipe for a medieval minty mouthwash!
Les proz e les vassals
Souvent entre piez de chevals
Kar ja li coard n’I chasront

'The Brave and the valiant
Are always to be found between the hooves of horses
For never will cowards fall down there.'

Histoire de Guillaume le Mareschal

www.elizabethchadwick.com

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MLE (Emily Cotton)
Bibliomaniac
Interest in HF: started in childhood with the classics, which, IMHO are HF even if they were contemporary when written.
Favorite HF book: Prince of Foxes, by Samuel Shellabarger
Preferred HF: Currently prefer 1600 and earlier, but I'll read anything that keeps me turning the page.
Location: California Bay Area

Postby MLE (Emily Cotton) » Tue August 24th, 2010, 3:53 pm

Elizabeth I is among the best-documented people of her era, so it is fairly easy to guess what she would have done. I couldn't say whether she was virgin in the sense of NEVER having had sexual intercourse, nor that she was innocent in the sense that she refrained from getting satisfaction from her lover or lovers in non-impregnating ways. But I would bet quite a lot on her never putting herself in the way of losing her reputation or her crown once she had reached mental maturity. Which for her was probably very early.

The woman had tremendous self-control and a very keen sense of what was good for her in the long run. Whatever makes people think that she would do something so risky, for such a short-term benefit?

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EC2
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Location: Nottingham UK
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Postby EC2 » Tue August 24th, 2010, 4:03 pm

"MLE" wrote:Elizabeth I is among the best-documented people of her era, so it is fairly easy to guess what she would have done. I couldn't say whether she was virgin in the sense of NEVER having had sexual intercourse, nor that she was innocent in the sense that she refrained from getting satisfaction from her lover or lovers in non-impregnating ways. But I would bet quite a lot on her never putting herself in the way of losing her reputation or her crown once she had reached mental maturity. Which for her was probably very early.

The woman had tremendous self-control and a very keen sense of what was good for her in the long run. Whatever makes people think that she would do something so risky, for such a short-term benefit?


Very well said MLE. I think today with our sexualised culture, we often find it difficult to believe that our ancestors could be celibate by choice and by necessity if circumstances demanded it. I know full well that people in past eras had sex lives, often fulfilling ones, and that one size didn't fit all in terms of attitude, but their thought processes were formed of different criteria and lessons from birth. I sometimes read sensationalised historical novels - a certain recent one about Eleanor of Aquitaine comes to mind, and I wonder either how an author could get the mindset so wrong, or is it that the celebrity personages from the past are being treated like the tabloid celebrities of now, with various lurid theories and rumours touted as fact, because salacious speculation sells better than truth? The latter I suspect.
Les proz e les vassals

Souvent entre piez de chevals

Kar ja li coard n’I chasront



'The Brave and the valiant
Are always to be found between the hooves of horses
For never will cowards fall down there.'


Histoire de Guillaume le Mareschal



www.elizabethchadwick.com

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Kveto from Prague
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Location: Prague, Bohemia

Postby Kveto from Prague » Tue August 24th, 2010, 4:23 pm

"MLE" wrote:The woman had tremendous self-control and a very keen sense of what was good for her in the long run. Whatever makes people think that she would do something so risky, for such a short-term benefit?


guess that self-control didnt extend to laying off the sweets and avoiding blackened teeth. I kid :-)

Im increadably uninterested as to whether old Lizzie was an actual virgin or not. Im just having a laugh over not having kids as "proof" of ones virginity :-)

by that way of reasoning, Paris Hilton is a virgin.

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EC2
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Location: Nottingham UK
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Postby EC2 » Tue August 24th, 2010, 4:26 pm

"keny from prague" wrote:guess that self-control didnt extend to laying off the sweets and avoiding blackened teeth. I kid :-)

Im increadably uninterested as to whether old Lizzie was an actual virgin or not. Im just having a laugh over not having kids as "proof" of ones virginity :-)

by that way of reasoning, Paris Hilton is a virgin.


I wonder what that says about the 'Virgin' Mary then! LOL!
Les proz e les vassals

Souvent entre piez de chevals

Kar ja li coard n’I chasront



'The Brave and the valiant
Are always to be found between the hooves of horses
For never will cowards fall down there.'


Histoire de Guillaume le Mareschal



www.elizabethchadwick.com

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Michy
Bibliophile
Location: California

Postby Michy » Tue August 24th, 2010, 6:34 pm

"EC2" wrote:I wonder either how an author could get the mindset so wrong, or is it that the celebrity personages from the past are being treated like the tabloid celebrities of now, with various lurid theories and rumours touted as fact, because salacious speculation sells better than truth? The latter I suspect.

Very well said. I suspect it is both. I am totally speculating here, but I believe that today's authors often give their historical characters modern mindsets either because they don't have a good grasp of the period they're writing about, or because they think that is what modern people want to read. Everybody wants to read about a ____th century maiden who is daring and liberated and who refuses to live within the confines that society at that time placed on women. Right?

Actually, maybe that IS what the majority of today's reading public wants to read. I know that those of us on this forum like our historical fiction to be historically accurate, but perhaps we're an anomaly - ?

annis
Bibliomaniac

Postby annis » Tue August 24th, 2010, 7:36 pm

Given that Elizabeth's every move (and even the contents of her chamberpot!) was always under scrutiny, it seems hard to imagine how she could have got up to mischief without someone noticing. Mind you , there were those wild horse rides with dear Robert, Master of the Horse, where other members of the party were regularly left in the dust. Then there was the Thomas Seymour question---

Didn't Napoleon's Josephine have black teeth as well, due to a taste for sugary sweets?
Last edited by annis on Tue August 24th, 2010, 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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