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The Red Queen

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EC2
Bibliomaniac
Location: Nottingham UK
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Postby EC2 » Sun August 1st, 2010, 7:17 pm

"Berengaria" wrote:This is very interesting! So I should assume then that Margaret Beaufort was merely saying her husband was old at 35, because she herself was so young.
Thank you for the information!! :)


I don't know without the full context, but I would cautiously say yes. Did she say that in real history or just in the novel? I once read that anyone 15 years older than yourself is someone you consider old - LOL! So when you are 15, 30 seems absolutely ancient. When you are 30, 45 is knocking on a bit. When you're 45, 60 seems over the hill. In aristocratic circles, it was a frequent ocurrance for very young women to marry men in their umm.. full prime. From my own research, Isabelle Marshal, aged 17 at the most, married the 42 or 43 year old William Marshal (who then lived until he was 72 and begot his last child at around 64). Roger Bigod, Earl of Norfolk was in his mid 30's at least when he married Ida de Tosney, King Henry II's former mistress, who would have been in the ballpark of 20 when he married her. He lived to his mid 70's at least.
Les proz e les vassals
Souvent entre piez de chevals
Kar ja li coard n’I chasront

'The Brave and the valiant
Are always to be found between the hooves of horses
For never will cowards fall down there.'

Histoire de Guillaume le Mareschal

www.elizabethchadwick.com

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Michy
Bibliophile
Location: California

Postby Michy » Sun August 1st, 2010, 8:05 pm

Berengeria -- I have an Apothecary Rose, too! :) I wanted some old garden rose species for my yard, so this spring I special-ordered them from a grower in Oregon -- they arrived in little tiny pots about 2" across, and the plants were about only about 6" high! :eek: But they are all growing and doing well, and my Apothecary Rose actually put out a couple of blooms early in the summer. I bought two other varieties, also, another Gallica rose and a Bourbon. I can't wait to see how they look in another year or two!

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Michy
Bibliophile
Location: California

Postby Michy » Sun August 1st, 2010, 8:19 pm

"EC2" wrote: Hasn't it been said that the current generation of young western adults, down to lifestyle, are going to be first not to outlive their parents?).


You hear all the time how the younger generations are becoming more and more obese, and I actually see it every week, through my work with young children at my church. Looking back at my elementary school pictures from the early 1970s, I am struck by how thin we all were, compared to many children today. In fact, obese children were such a rarity when I was in school that they were made fun of. Of course, I'm glad that no longer happens, since that is obviously cruel. But what is sad is that obesity among children is now so common, that no one thinks anything about it. Of the children who come to my Sunday School class every week, probably one out of 3 or 4 is what we would have considered "fat" when I was a kid -- and these are only 7-year-olds. It's alarming to think of the health implications a few years from now..........

We have medicines to correct blips in our health and keep us alive


Yes, in centuries past it was no doubt only those who were blessed with good genes, good luck, and a strong constitution who lived a long life.

Thank you, EC, for your response. As always, you are interesting and informative!

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MLE (Emily Cotton)
Bibliomaniac
Interest in HF: started in childhood with the classics, which, IMHO are HF even if they were contemporary when written.
Favorite HF book: Prince of Foxes, by Samuel Shellabarger
Preferred HF: Currently prefer 1600 and earlier, but I'll read anything that keeps me turning the page.
Location: California Bay Area

Postby MLE (Emily Cotton) » Sun August 1st, 2010, 9:21 pm

"EC2" wrote: Putting a 40 year old woman of 1310 beside a western female of a corresponding age from the same social strata, and a woman from say rural Afghanistan, would be interesting. Our notion of what 40 actually looks like is very conditioned by our niche in our own sector of global society.

Actually, our friend Mahmood's mother died recently. She was the same age I am, but when I met her, my first thought was that Mahmood must have been a very late child. Until I remembered that he was her oldest, in which case she was 17 when he was born. She was born and raised in a peasant family in Ghazni, Afghanistan.

On the other hand is Rashida, Mahmood's mother-in-law, also my age. She comes from an upper-class Pakistani family and and looks more like her daughter's sister. She also runs a successful construction firm with an iron hand, so it isn't as though there is no stress in her life! But when you have a bunch of maids to fetch and carry for you, and wrinkles are held at bay by dark skin pigment, you end up looking younger than even western medicine can manage.

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Berengaria
Avid Reader
Location: northern Vancouver Island, BC Canada

Postby Berengaria » Mon August 2nd, 2010, 1:24 am

"Michy" wrote:Berengeria -- I have an Apothecary Rose, too! :) I wanted some old garden rose species for my yard, so this spring I special-ordered them from a grower in Oregon -- they arrived in little tiny pots about 2" across, and the plants were about only about 6" high! :eek: But they are all growing and doing well, and my Apothecary Rose actually put out a couple of blooms early in the summer. I bought two other varieties, also, another Gallica rose and a Bourbon. I can't wait to see how they look in another year or two!

They are great roses ....I also have a York and Lancaster rose bush. I had a damask bush but it died. Love these antique roses!
User signature picture My 4 girls!


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“No entertainment is so cheap as reading, nor any pleasure so lasting. She will not want new fashions nor regret the loss of expensive diversions or variety of company if she can be amused with an author in her closet.” ~Lady Montagu

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Berengaria
Avid Reader
Location: northern Vancouver Island, BC Canada

I'm enjoying The Red Queen!

Postby Berengaria » Wed August 4th, 2010, 6:31 pm

I have almost finished this book and wish it would go further than shortly after the defining Bosworth Field moment...yes, I took a peek. But I suppose that other books in the series will fill in the later time period.
what a struggle Margaret had! And such determination! I could relate to her jealousy of Elizabeth Woodville, as haven't we all resented someone who seems to have things too easily. Of course, Margaret was looking at the public Elizabeth, not the private one.
I am saving the last part for tonight! :)
User signature picture My 4 girls!




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“No entertainment is so cheap as reading, nor any pleasure so lasting. She will not want new fashions nor regret the loss of expensive diversions or variety of company if she can be amused with an author in her closet.” ~Lady Montagu

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cw gortner
Bibliophile
Location: San Francisco,CA
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Postby cw gortner » Wed August 4th, 2010, 11:30 pm

I just bought this at Costco, so I'll read it next. It was $14.99, so I couldn't resist, plus I must admit - cover slut that I am - I love the whole glimmery Faberge-egg look. It's a pretty book, despite M. Beaufort's weird neck bandage. :p

I'm assuming I don't need to read White Queen beforehand? I have it, too, but all the Melusine references drove me nuts and I didn't get very far. I want to try it again, however, as I was in a rather intolerant mood in general at the time.
THE QUEEN'S VOW available on June 12, 2012!
THE TUDOR SECRET, Book I in the Elizabeth I Spymaster Chronicles
[B]THE CONFESSIONS OF CATHERINE DE MEDICI
THE LAST QUEEN
[/B]

www.cwgortner.com

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Ariadne
Bibliophile
Location: At the foothills of Mt. Level

Postby Ariadne » Wed August 4th, 2010, 11:54 pm

I didn't read White Queen first and didn't have any problem getting into this one. The cover art's a great improvement, too.

Margaret all wrapped up like that wouldn't do well in our 97-degree heat, that's for sure.

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boswellbaxter
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Location: North Carolina
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Postby boswellbaxter » Thu August 5th, 2010, 12:41 am

I'm getting to the finish line, and I have to say that I liked the first part of the book a lot better than the second half. All of the treasonous letters that Margaret is exchanging is trying my ability to suspend disbelief. Stanley is diverting, though.
Susan Higginbotham
Coming in October: The Woodvilles


http://www.susanhigginbotham.com/
http://www.susanhigginbotham.com/blog/

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Misfit
Bibliomaniac
Location: Seattle, WA

Postby Misfit » Thu August 5th, 2010, 1:07 am

"boswellbaxter" wrote:I'm getting to the finish line, and I have to say that I liked the first part of the book a lot better than the second half. All of the treasonous letters that Margaret is exchanging is trying my ability to suspend disbelief. Stanley is diverting, though.


Yes he is and yes those letters drove me nuts. I think it is about time to share the *Stanley* quote as well as Karla's Team Stanley poster she so kindly made for me.

“Don’t be a Beaufort filled with wounded pride – be a Stanley: get on the winning side”


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At home with a good book and the cat...
...is the only place I want to be


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