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The Welsh trilogy

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EC2
Bibliomaniac
Location: Nottingham UK
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Postby EC2 » Sat September 6th, 2008, 8:58 pm

I think there are many different scenarios for the Llewelyn/Joanna relationship. SKP creates a plausible one, but there are many others that would fit the bill just as well. I guess this is how it might have been but not necessarily how it was. I've never looked up the full factual history on this, but it might be interesting to do so. I have seen a letter online somewhere from Llewelyn to William Marshal II, talking in diplomatic terms about the execution of Will de Braose - who was the Marshal's brother in law.
Les proz e les vassals
Souvent entre piez de chevals
Kar ja li coard n’I chasront

'The Brave and the valiant
Are always to be found between the hooves of horses
For never will cowards fall down there.'

Histoire de Guillaume le Mareschal

www.elizabethchadwick.com

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EC2
Bibliomaniac
Location: Nottingham UK
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Postby EC2 » Sat September 6th, 2008, 9:11 pm

Haven't found the letter yet, but here's an url to a sketch of Joanna's tombstone. It's also interesting that the page says her mother is possibly Agatha de Ferrers. The de Ferrers' were earls of Derby.
http://freespace.virgin.net/doug.thompson/BraoseWeb/family/joanwales.html
Les proz e les vassals

Souvent entre piez de chevals

Kar ja li coard n’I chasront



'The Brave and the valiant
Are always to be found between the hooves of horses
For never will cowards fall down there.'


Histoire de Guillaume le Mareschal



www.elizabethchadwick.com

Ash
Bibliomaniac
Location: Arizona, USA

Postby Ash » Sat September 6th, 2008, 9:20 pm

"nona" wrote:no I knew she felt guilty for what John did but I would never sleep with him because of the relationship to the victims and my guilty feelings, to me if you love your spouse then you would not cheat under any circumstance, never in my life would I sleep with another man then my husband. I believe she got bored with her husband and he whooed her but I don't understand why she acted on it, does that make sense?


Remember her age (not era, but her chronological age). Girls were often sent out to be married soon after menses. I figured when the book started she was 14,15. By the time this was happening, she'd barely been out of her teen years, and didn't have the wisdom that time so often gives us. At least thats my theory. Also, as I said, she felt horribly guilty, and I can indeed see a young woman going to bed with a man not her spouse for that very reason. There are worse reasons I guess. BTW, I think this only happened once, am I right?\

>SKP creates a plausible one, but there are many others that would fit the bill just as well.

Oh, I totally agree. But its fun to speculate, and fun to try to gleam what the author is trying to suggest.

What I did love was at the very end, when they are old and laughing like old friends who've been through everything together.
Last edited by Ash on Sat September 6th, 2008, 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ash
Bibliomaniac
Location: Arizona, USA

Postby Ash » Sat September 6th, 2008, 9:22 pm

"1lila1" wrote:But I have to say I bawled my eyes out more in Falls the Shadow than any other book I think. The Reckoning was great but I didn't shed one tear. Weird!


Oh the last one? There wasn't kleenex left in the house by the time I finished that book. In fact, I couldn't get them out of my mind; I told myself how silly I was, greiving for people who died 700 years ago. Tho I think my tears were also that our world hasn't changed all that very much

Funny story - I met Penman at a signing, and told her how moved I was. She laughed and said when she was doing the research for the book, she felt like sheneeded grief counseling!

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nona
Bibliophile
Location: Oklahoma

Postby nona » Sat September 6th, 2008, 9:28 pm

how funny, I finished the Reckoning at 2 am and woke my husband up sniffeling

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EC2
Bibliomaniac
Location: Nottingham UK
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Postby EC2 » Sat September 6th, 2008, 9:35 pm

"Ash" wrote:Remember her age (not era, but her chronological age). Girls were often sent out to be married soon after menses. I figured when the book started she was 14,15. By the time this was happening, she'd barely been out of her teen years, and didn't have the wisdom that time so often gives us. At least thats my theory. .


Ash, she married Llewelyn in 1205 and the event happened in 1230 when she would have been in her late 30's at least, so not exactly a teenager or even a young woman, but one old enough to have garnered some wisdom.
Last edited by EC2 on Sat September 6th, 2008, 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: typos
Les proz e les vassals

Souvent entre piez de chevals

Kar ja li coard n’I chasront



'The Brave and the valiant
Are always to be found between the hooves of horses
For never will cowards fall down there.'


Histoire de Guillaume le Mareschal



www.elizabethchadwick.com

User avatar
nona
Bibliophile
Location: Oklahoma

Postby nona » Sat September 6th, 2008, 9:38 pm

didn't she marry at 13?

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EC2
Bibliomaniac
Location: Nottingham UK
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Postby EC2 » Sat September 6th, 2008, 9:40 pm

No one knows when she was born officially; it's not in any historical record. If she did marry at 13 in 1205, she'd have been born in 1192, which would make her 38 in 1230.
Les proz e les vassals

Souvent entre piez de chevals

Kar ja li coard n’I chasront



'The Brave and the valiant
Are always to be found between the hooves of horses
For never will cowards fall down there.'


Histoire de Guillaume le Mareschal



www.elizabethchadwick.com

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Misfit
Bibliomaniac
Location: Seattle, WA

Postby Misfit » Sat September 6th, 2008, 9:51 pm

Whether it really happened or not I just loved the scene where he forgave her. Sob. I did drop a lot of tears in that series.

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EC2
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Location: Nottingham UK
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Postby EC2 » Sat September 6th, 2008, 9:59 pm

"Misfit" wrote:Whether it really happened or not I just loved the scene where he forgave her. Sob. I did drop a lot of tears in that series.


It is my favourite of all the Penman's. I've read it 3 times I think. A good friend of mine on another board almost missed her wedding because she was desperate to find out what happened next. She was reading HBD in her wedding dress with her hair in rollers!
Les proz e les vassals

Souvent entre piez de chevals

Kar ja li coard n’I chasront



'The Brave and the valiant
Are always to be found between the hooves of horses
For never will cowards fall down there.'


Histoire de Guillaume le Mareschal



www.elizabethchadwick.com


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