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So what do you all think about the Octuplet Births?

A place to debate issues or to rant about what's on your mind. In addition to discussions about historical fiction, books, the publishing industry, and history, discussions about current political, social, and religious issues and other topics are allowed, so those who are easily offended by certain topics may want to avoid such threads. Members are expected to keep the discussions friendly and polite and to avoid personal attacks on other members. The moderators reserve the right to shut down a thread without warning if they believe it necessary.
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Divia
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Post by Divia » Wed February 4th, 2009, 4:32 am

I think if you are A. stupid and B. want 14 kids you should be spayed. I'll also throw in C. you cant afford them.

I did vote republican. I am tried of struggling to make money while my friend has three kids, sits on her ass at home and gets a nice check from the government for having three kids. Now granted her husband works, but they don't pay into that system like I do and they get tax breaks and government programs. :mad:

Sometimes I like the old days when you had to take care of your own children instead of insisting the government bail your pathetic ass out.

I know I sound mean and harsh, but its time people stopped turning a blind eye to this.
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LoveHistory
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Post by LoveHistory » Wed February 4th, 2009, 4:46 am

Yeah, a lot of us like the old days. That's why we read HF and hang out here. :)

Ash
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Post by Ash » Wed February 4th, 2009, 2:22 pm

Sometimes I like the old days when you had to take care of your own children instead of insisting the government bail your pathetic ass out.

I would suggest that 'the good old days' were a dream started by the tv industry with shows like Donna Reed and Father Knows Best. The 'good old days' depended on how much money you had, how much education you had, and what color of your skin was. Much like today, really. I agree that this case is ridiculous, and makes me angry as well that she can just have kids and not think of her responsibility to them. But I am one woman who does not want to go back to those days, who is glad that there is a safety net (ridden with holes tho it is) for people who are just trying to live, and having a hard time doing it.

Drawing the line at 'spaying' would be difficult, depending on the person making the decision and the willingness of the woman in question. I still remember when 'inmates' of mental institutions and institions for the mentally retarded had their tubes tied as soon as they reached puberty. So no, that isn't the answer.

That being said, the doctor I think should be held liable for this, esp if he knew her mental state and home situation. I hope he's paying her medical bills (tho I doubt it).

I do agree that the woman was wrong, but now she has children - and yes, someone has to take care of them. For like it or not, they are part of our future. I don't like that we the taxpayer has to pay if she can't, but its certainly not these kids fault.

Wonder if anyone could convince her to adopt out her eight babies? I know many women who wanted children but couldn't have them. What a blessing that would be, no?

Finally - since I don't have children, my mind boggles at even having one of them. Eight? How in the hell did she do this, physically? Was she even able to walk by the time she gave birth? Yikes, and ouch.
Last edited by Ash on Wed February 4th, 2009, 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Leyland
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Post by Leyland » Wed February 4th, 2009, 4:12 pm

[quote=""Divia""]Sometimes I like the old days when you had to take care of your own children instead of insisting the government bail your pathetic ass out.[/quote]
I guess the government would now rather pay for parents with 'inadequate parenting funds' to babysit at home and hope the kids [enter Social Services] are being properly cared by the parent(s) versus having to fund the historic poor houses/childrens' homes of the past with taxpayer funds. Like one of those places where Oliver Twist ended up begging for more food - weren't lots of babies left on the steps when women without access to legal birth control had no choice but to carry to term?

But seriously, I'd want Social Services to be riding this crazy woman's ass every day to make sure all 14 of her kids are being raised properly in good mental and physical health - which as Divia stated correctly - is impossible! Maybe they'll get yanked out of that house someday and fostered or adopted out singly. I personally don't think this 'miracle' litter of kids should have to be raised together by any two people in a traditional nuclear family type envorinment. Ash is right - let someone who really wants to be a parent have a chance!

Anyone remember the movie Raising Arizona? :)
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Volgadon
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Post by Volgadon » Wed February 4th, 2009, 5:23 pm

Spaying is wrong. Period. If you want to do so to yourself that is one thing, but we don't have the right to enforce it on anyone. There are a lot of dangers, the biggest one in my mind is that you might just fall under it tommorow.

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ellenjane
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Post by ellenjane » Wed February 4th, 2009, 7:06 pm

My guess is that she went to some fertility clinic not in the U.S. I have a very hard time believing that any reputable doctor in the U.S. (or the U.K., or any first-world country) would transfer eight embryos at once. I have some experience in this area, and there are strict guidelines and frequent monitoring in place to keep multiples on this order from happening. If her doctor is found to in the U.S., I imagine that they'll be losing their license.

I am mystified about how she paid for all the IVF - that's a $12,000-$15,000 procedure, and very few insurance companies cover it at all.

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Misfit
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Post by Misfit » Wed February 4th, 2009, 7:12 pm

[quote=""ellenjane""]My guess is that she went to some fertility clinic not in the U.S. I have a very hard time believing that any reputable doctor in the U.S. (or the U.K., or any first-world country) would transfer eight embryos at once. I have some experience in this area, and there are strict guidelines and frequent monitoring in place to keep multiples on this order from happening. If her doctor is found to in the U.S., I imagine that they'll be losing their license.

I am mystified about how she paid for all the IVF - that's a $12,000-$15,000 procedure, and very few insurance companies cover it at all.[/quote]

Interesting, and makes the whole thing even more of a mystery. If insurance doesn't pay for it (US or elsewhere) who the hell did? Or was everyone hoping for a big fat endorsement to support it all?

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Leyland
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Post by Leyland » Wed February 4th, 2009, 7:27 pm

I am almost stunned to read about her educational background and future plans in Wiki :

According to news reports, Nadya Suleman graduated from Cal State Fullerton in 2006 with a Bachelor of Science degree in child and adolescent development, worked as a psychiatric technician until she was injured,[1] and returned to school to pursue a master's degree in counseling, leaving the program in 2008.[26]

The Times reported that Suleman plans to embark on a career as a "television childcare expert," and her family is asking $2 million from media interviews and commercial sponsors to help raise her 14 children.[25] Suleman's spokeswoman, Joann Killeen, president of Killeen Furtney Group, a public-relations company, claimed that Suleman has been deluged with hundreds of offers for book deals, TV shows, and other business proposals, which are 'being considered'


She's a psych tech and counselor!! OMG. Next thing you know she'll be Oprah's new BFF :p .
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams ~ Arthur O'Shaughnessy, Ode

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Misfit
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Post by Misfit » Wed February 4th, 2009, 8:02 pm

I found the Times article, that's a lovely piece of reading.
Nadya Suleman, who describes herself as a “professional student” living off education grants and parental money
Although still confined to an LA hospital bed, she intends to talk to two influential television hosts this week — media mogul Oprah Winfrey, and Diane Sawyer, who presents Good Morning America.

Her family has told agents she needs cash from deals such as nappy sponsorship — she will get through 250 a week in the next few months — and the agents will gauge public reaction to her story.
Edited to add another link I found.
Yolanda Garcia, 49, of Whittier, said she helped care for Nadya Suleman's autistic son three years ago.

"From what I could tell back then, she was pretty happy with herself, saying she liked having kids and she wanted 12 kids in all," Garcia told the Long Beach Press-Telegram.

"She told me that all of her kids were through in vitro, and I said 'Gosh, how can you afford that and go to school at the same time?'" she added. "And she said it's because she got paid for it."

Garcia said she did not ask for details.
Last edited by Misfit on Wed February 4th, 2009, 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ash
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Post by Ash » Thu February 5th, 2009, 12:24 am

Another issue btw that any competent dr would have raised with mom is the chance of multi-birth babies having problems later on. Ive seen my share of hearing impaired kids who were premature, like many of these babies are, and small birth weight is often high risk for developmental delays. Not to say that all of them will be, but a parent should at least be advised to consider the possibility before going through those kind of treatments.

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