Dorothy Dunnett

Diiarts · Post by **Diiarts** » Mon August 30th, 2010, 7:36 pm

[quote=""Misfit""]That was a wow scene. There's another *chase* in either book five or six very much on par with this one.[/quote]

It's early in book 6 (Checkmate).

Ludmilla · Post by **Ludmilla** » Mon August 30th, 2010, 7:51 pm

[quote=""Misfit""]That was a wow scene. There's another *chase* in either book five or six very much on par with this one.[/quote]

There are a lot of chase scenes in the series, but the one that I'm thinking of happens in (I think) the next to last book, where they prevent Lymond from going back to Russia. It was such a powerful and poignant ending.

EC said: My favourite novel in the Lymond Series is the second one, Queen's Play, and the scene that remains with me from that one, is the chase across the snow-topped roofs. It's magical.

Queen's Play was one that I appreciated more in retrospect than while reading it. Lymond was just so frustrating at times in that one. My favorite scene is when Margaret reprimands him with a wonderful speech toward the end.

annis · Post by **annis** » Mon August 30th, 2010, 8:37 pm

As mentioned earlier, Queen's Play was the first Dunnett novel I read, and I loved that harum-scarum rooftop chase sequence. Many years later I reread the Lymond series (i introduced it to one of my sons and took the chance to reread it myself). Shortly afterwards I read a sci-fantasy series called the Sunfall Trilogy, and blow me down! there was Lymond's rooftop chase sequence pretty much word-for-word repeated there in a different setting. I was gobsmacked. The author nabbed whole sections from the Lymond books and inserted them throughout his series. I know that Dunnett's books were OP at the time, but what was the author thinking? Didn't he realise that readers who love HF also often enjoy fantasy?

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Mon August 30th, 2010, 9:04 pm

The books being out of print does not mean they are out of copyright. Whoever this author is should be reported to his publisher and Dunnett's publisher and sued vigorously for plagiarism.

annis · Post by **annis** » Mon August 30th, 2010, 9:47 pm

Given the amount of time that's gone by (this was back in the early 1990s) I should think that the fantasy books themselves are OP now. I must admit that at the time I assumed someone else in the industry would have noticed (after all I was only an insignificant reader from Down Under) and mentioned it to his publisher, but don't know if that happened or not.

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Mon August 30th, 2010, 10:25 pm

A little research has turned up the fact that the author of the Sunfall Trilogy also helped himself to considerable amounts of Cecelia Holland's Until the Sun Falls, The Earl, and Great Maria. Holland did pursue the matter. The December 1994 issue of the Ansible newsletter commented:

"Cecelia Holland's long-standing complaints of being plagiarized in the William James Sunfall trilogy (published by Orbit) have finally taken effect. 'Orbit has capitulated; they gave James until November 1 to respond to the charges, which he has not done, so they are recalling everything, ceasing distribution, and trying to call the matter closed. I am in no mood to consider it closed..."

Holland notes that she herself also recognized bits of plagiarized Dunnett.

So at least the books were recalled. Go, Cecelia Holland! If you want to read more, go to the Ansible website and search the term 'Sunfall.'

MLE (Emily Cotton) · Post by **MLE (Emily Cotton)** » Mon August 30th, 2010, 10:34 pm

[quote=""Diiarts""]DD's characters are only implausible and inconsistent if one looks at them through a C20th lens. [/quote]

Are you kidding me? she had Lymond be an alcoholic when it suited her, and then able to handle it just fine when it didn't. I have spent years working with homeless, addicted, abused, sexually exploited and similar human circumstances, and DD's lack of understanding of them drives me absolutely up a wall. Her pseudo-psychology and arch handling of problems with which I am intimately familiar -- as much in a third-world, pre-twentieth-century setting as here in the industrialized world-- drove me to fling down the Niccolo books half-way through the second one, the handling of the twelve-year-old's sexual development being more than I could finally stand.

annis · Post by **annis** » Mon August 30th, 2010, 11:30 pm

Posted by Elizabeth

So at least the books were recalled. Go, Cecelia Holland! If you want to read more, go to the Ansible website and search the term 'Sunfall.'

Thanks for this info, Elizabeth. Glad to know that this author's plagiarism was noted. I hadn't read Cecelia Holland's work at the time, so didn't pick up on that, but as I was contemporaneously re-reading the Lymond books I certainly noticed the use of Dunnett's work!

SGM · Post by **SGM** » Tue August 31st, 2010, 7:30 am

[quote=""annis""]
Thanks for this info, Elizabeth. Glad to know that this author's plagiarism was noted. [/quote]

There was at least one very noticeable piece of Defoe's Moll Flanders in Forever Amber. It irritated the heck out of me when I read it but as Defoe had been dead for a couple of hundred years I suppose he was considered fair game.

annis · Post by **annis** » Tue August 31st, 2010, 8:22 pm

Has anyone else ever had the probably heretical thought, "Why didn't on earth didn't Francis just talk to his mother"? Mind you, if he had, then we would have missed out on all those fabulous stories--