Top 10 Myths about the Middle Ages

Leyland · Post by **Leyland** » Sun January 25th, 2009, 1:37 am

Did the peasants get much Vitamin C before the potato was 'brought over'? Having just read The Terror by Dan Simmons and getting a very realistic visual idea of how scurvy kills, I'm wondering if peasants had issues with scurvy since they mostly ate grains and some protein. Cabbage and carrots could have supplied some C. Did the peasant class get to plant those for their personal consumption? I guess citrus fruits didn't come their way often - maybe from Spain, but could they afford them?

annis · Post by **annis** » Sun January 25th, 2009, 3:06 am

There's a chapter in the book "Food and Eating in Medieval Europe" called "Did the Peasants Really Starve in Medieval England" by Christopher Dyer (much of it is available here, beginning pg 52)
The author points out that peasants didn't just eat grain and the few vegetables which they could grow themselves, but supplemented their diet by foraging for greens including herbs, berries, roots, nuts etc in the surrounding woodlands, though also comments that they seemed to get by on quite low levels of vitamin C.

Leyland · Post by **Leyland** » Sun January 25th, 2009, 3:12 am

So, they were a scurvy lot!

annis · Post by **annis** » Sun January 25th, 2009, 3:16 am

Yep- it's probably the origin of the insulting phrase "scurvy knave!"

annis · Post by **annis** » Sun January 25th, 2009, 3:25 am

Posted by keny from prague

i remembered a famous little tidbit from ahmed ibn fazlan about the hygine of the viking rus when he travelled amongst them.

I remember that bit, keny- Michael Crighton borrowed this scene in his novel "Eaters of the Dead", an entertaining 10th century adventure featuring Muslim Ahmad ibn Fadlan, Vikings and evil Beowulf/Neanderthal creatures.
The scene with the snotty washing water also appears in the movie version, "The 13th Warrior" , starring Antonio Banderas as ibn Fadlan.

In fact I think that the Vikings (at home anyway) were relatively clean. Archaeologists have discovered combs, wash basins

and bath houses in Viking settlements.

Ludmilla · Post by **Ludmilla** » Sun January 25th, 2009, 7:40 pm

[quote=""annis""]... peasants didn't just eat grain and the few vegetables which they could grow themselves, but supplemented their diet by foraging for greens including herbs, berries, roots, nuts etc in the surrounding woodlands, though also comments that they seemed to get by on quite low levels of vitamin C.[/quote]

I think people would be surprised what herbs and veggies also contain vitamin C -- perhaps not high levels, but enough to prevent one from getting scurvy. I think even parsley contains vitamin C. I remember reading about one sea voyage where the sailors loaded up on parsley and some other local herbs to recover from their scurvy. I think I also read that some of the Chinese vessels avoided this problem by growing food (vegetables, for example) on their ships, though the bigger the ship, the longer the voyage the more inevitable the problem would be. Those long sea voyages, the hardships involved, have always fascinated me!

Ludmilla · Post by **Ludmilla** » Sun January 25th, 2009, 8:43 pm

Sorry about the double post but this is bugging me now. I thought I read somewhere that the Chinese grew food on their ships. Now I'm not so sure. I did find this, though:

The reason why scurvy was banished from the long-distance sailing ships of the Chinese Ming dynasty (1368-1644) was due to the fact that the crew were regularly given fresh, germinated soya beans to eat, as part of their traditional food. Unlike non-germinated seeds, these shoots are rich in vitamin C. The importance of the absence of scurvy is not to be underestimated, since the voyages of the Chinese admiral Zheng He (1421) led to world maps, which were obtained by the Portuguese crown and were a crucial element for the major discovery expeditions of Henry the Navigator, opening the world for the West, a fundamental turning point in history.

Not that any of this has anything to do with misconceptions about the Middle Ages.

Libby · Post by **Libby** » Sun January 25th, 2009, 8:44 pm

I've been thinking about what fruits would have been available in medieval England. There would probably have been native fruits such as blackcurrants, blackberries, strawberries, gooseberries in season as well as apples, pears, plums and quince. Many of these may well have been cultivated as well as growing wild.

I doubt that many of these were eaten raw as fruit, but would have been preserved or used in sauces when cooking.

EC2 · Post by **EC2** » Sun January 25th, 2009, 9:45 pm

[quote=""Libby""]I've been thinking about what fruits would have been available in medieval England. There would probably have been native fruits such as blackcurrants, blackberries, strawberries, gooseberries in season as well as apples, pears, plums and quince. Many of these may well have been cultivated as well as growing wild.

I doubt that many of these were eaten raw as fruit, but would have been preserved or used in sauces when cooking.[/quote]

Blackcurrants weren't native and came in later. Best thing to do is read Anne Hagen's Food in Anglo Saxon England for the lowdown on what was and wasn't available, how it was grown, processed and eaten. It covers more than just the Anglo Saxon period. It's one of my desert island food history books as far as research goes. I put black currants in The Winter Mantle and then discovered they weren't native. Also see CM Woolgar Food in Meideval England, Yale University Press, specifically for details on gardens and garden produce and the archaeology of Medieval plant foods. I took an excellent course on medieval foods and cooking with Dr. Gillian Polack over at suite 101 a few years ago.
As an e.g. from Hagen she lists apples, pears, crab apples, pears, cherries, plums, peaches (imported, I don't know, but mentioned in leechdoms) elder, mulberries, blackberries, strawberries, myrtle, sloe, whortleberry, bullace, damson,grapes, raspberries. There's a certain amount of discussions re tree grafts and cultivation. Fruits were both cultivated and culled from the wild.
They were eaten both raw and cooked.

EC2 · Post by **EC2** » Sun January 25th, 2009, 9:48 pm

Meant to add, re scurvy, which could happen after the long winter months, the first wild greens of the year were eaten with alacrity. We have one that grown early-ish called Jack By the Hedge. Smells of garlic but doesn't taste of much. Good vitamin C though. Also Sorrel pudding was a favourite. I have the recipe lurking somewhere, but it's not very palatable to modern tastes. Brilliant for vit C. again though.