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The Glorious Revolution


Postby annis » Mon January 18th, 2010, 5:24 pm

"Proud Servant" is part of a loosely linked trilogy which includes "The Stranger Prince", the story of Prince Rupert of the Rhine" (probably not one of irwin's better efforts) and "The Bride" which is the story of the ill-fated romance between Montose and Prince Rupert's sister, Princess Louise Hollandine

I've just discovered that Jane Lane who wrote several English Civil War based novels, also wrote one about Jacobite hero "Bonnie Dundee", John Graham of Claverhouse;
"The Phoenix and the Laurel", pub.1954

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Interest in HF: I can't answer this in 100 characters. Sorry.
Favorite HF book: Checkmate, the final novel in the Lymond series
Preferred HF: Literary novels. Late medieval and Renaissance.
Location: Catskill, New York, USA

Postby Margaret » Mon January 18th, 2010, 6:23 pm

James II was so d*** unpopular and ineffective as a king, why were so many willing to risk all to get him back on the throne?

Well ... George Bush was re-elected. People may not have risked all to get him a second term, but they were willing to lie and cheat (for example, the "Swift Boat" ads).
Browse over 5000 historical novel listings (probably well over 5000 by now, but I haven't re-counted lately) and over 700 reviews at www.HistoricalNovels.info



Postby annis » Mon January 18th, 2010, 8:07 pm

James appears to have been a terminal ditherer. First he decides to leave England to his daughter Mary and William of Orange, then he changes his mind. He didn't treat his supporters well- he was supposed to back up Claverhouse with funds and troops from Ireland, but late in the piece sent only a few untrained "wild Irish" who weren't all that useful and very little in the way of money. After the Battle of Boyne he scurried off back to France, abandoning his Irish supporters who suffered badly. As a result James became known in Ireland as "Séamus an Chaca" or 'James the be-shitten'! He also succeeded in seriously damaging Catholics in Britain, who were denied state and military posts and the right to vote for many years.

Come to think of it, Bonnie Prince Charlie did exactly the same thing to the Scottish Highlanders, though they seem to have regarded his failure more kindly than the Irish did James'.
Last edited by annis on Fri March 8th, 2013, 6:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Location: New York

Postby Chatterbox » Tue January 19th, 2010, 10:06 pm

There's a new nonfiction book out about the Glorious Revolution, which I'm quite eager to read...

It's always been interesting to me that the two biggest challenges from the deposed stuarts came after the deaths of Mary and Anne -- the 1715 and 1745 rebellions. It seems that as long as a Stuart was on the throne, it was somehow marginally acceptable, but as soon as the succession went back to James I's daughter's youngest daughter, and on to her (German-born) son, that was too much. Given the choice between the Hanoverians and (Catholic) Stewarts, it may have been the choice of the lesser of two evils.

I have always been fascinated by the 'wild geese'. While they didn't really get going until after the deposition of James II, they were a factor as early as the late 16th century -- popping up in Bohemia, among other places. There were a lot of self-imposed exiles under the Commonwealth as well. I've always gotten a chuckle out of the very Irish names that pop up in the strangest places during the Napoleonic wars -- in Napoleon's army, as well as those of Spain and Portugal. You still find their descendents there to this day...

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Glorious Revolution causes and outcomes

Postby SGM » Sun March 21st, 2010, 12:35 pm

Below is a link to the archive of the In Our Time edition on the Glorious Revolution. I don't know if it can be accessed from outside the UK and you do need RealPlayer to play it, but it is very good. I think this is the one where Richard Ollard states his position on the fate of Charles I.


There are many other editions on The Trial of Charles I, the Restoration, the Jacobite Rebellion of 1745 etc which you will find from the homepage.

You might find these of interest.

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Alisha Marie Klapheke
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Location: Franklin, TN

Postby Alisha Marie Klapheke » Thu March 7th, 2013, 5:18 pm

I wish I could access SGM's link there, but it won't work for me. I'm writing a speculative fiction set in an alternate version of today's world where the British Empire still reigns supreme. I feel a hole in my knowledge concerning what would've happened if James had regained the throne. What if someone managed to assassinate Will and Mary? Would James have been able to stay in control? How would his son have ruled? And what about Anne? How would the people have dealt with it?

I'm being deliberately vague here because I'd love to hear what first comes to your mind.

Is it crazy to think that hundreds of years later, the people, both Scots and English, Catholic and Protestant, would long for the rights that William and Mary weren't able to bring into being?


Postby annis » Fri March 8th, 2013, 8:12 pm

Have you read Neal Stephenson's Baroque trilogy? It's an amazing alternative history of the Baroque period. Stephenson's interest mostly lies in an examination of the development of philosophical and scientific methods over the 17th & 18th centuries, but many actual historical figures appear, including James II.

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Alisha Marie Klapheke
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Location: Franklin, TN

Postby Alisha Marie Klapheke » Wed March 13th, 2013, 8:53 pm

Annis, I remember someone telling me about this book but I'd forgotten about it. Thanks for the reminder! You are now responsible for two books in my tbr pile! : )

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