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How do I avoid HF tropes that seemingly can't be avoided?

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Margaret
Bibliomaniac
Posts: 2440
Joined: August 2008
Interest in HF: I can't answer this in 100 characters. Sorry.
Favourite HF book: Checkmate, the final novel in the Lymond series
Preferred HF: Literary novels. Late medieval and Renaissance.
Location: Catskill, New York, USA
Contact:

Post by Margaret » Tue July 3rd, 2012, 7:30 pm

"There are only two or three humans stories, and they go on repeating themselves as if they never happened before."
So true, and the variations are infinite, as we know from our own lives!
Browse over 5000 historical novel listings (probably well over 5000 by now, but I haven't re-counted lately) and over 700 reviews at www.HistoricalNovels.info

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Justin Swanton
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Location: Durban, South Africa
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Post by Justin Swanton » Wed July 4th, 2012, 5:35 am

[quote=""Mythica""]I agree, I'm so sick of women in historical novels being rebellious - it's so unrealistic and there are other, less obvious ways to portray a strong woman. To many female characters face an arranged married with objection - because that's what a strong modern woman would do and to me, it screams of an author who can't get into a historical mind frame and bring the historical setting to life. I would expect a strong woman in history to face her fate with pragmatism and determination to make the best of her situation and use it to her advantage in life.[/quote]

Let me seize courage with both hands and enter the discussion as a male. When I was writing Centurion's Daughter (no, this isn't a promo) I mentally discarded the assertive and independent contemporary woman as she simply wouldn't have fitted into the era. I wanted my main protagonist, Aemilia, to gradually find her feet and think for herself, but in the context of the society of late Antiquity. I wanted her to grow in strength of character but without turning into a Lara Croft.

The subject of this thread also applies to men, incidentally. Most men in any era have to mind their place in the pecking order and put up with a great deal. Try rebelling against your boss and see what happens :D
Nunquam minus solus quam cum solus.

Author of Centurion's Daughter

Come visit my blog

User avatar
Margaret
Bibliomaniac
Posts: 2440
Joined: August 2008
Interest in HF: I can't answer this in 100 characters. Sorry.
Favourite HF book: Checkmate, the final novel in the Lymond series
Preferred HF: Literary novels. Late medieval and Renaissance.
Location: Catskill, New York, USA
Contact:

Post by Margaret » Wed July 4th, 2012, 7:00 am

Most men in any era have to mind their place in the pecking order and put up with a great deal.
You've put your finger on a major but not-often-noted difference between the genders, I think (generally speaking - there are always exceptions and qualifications). Women tend to think less hierarchically than men. And we tend to forget that males in a hierarchical system are not always strutting around at the top!
Browse over 5000 historical novel listings (probably well over 5000 by now, but I haven't re-counted lately) and over 700 reviews at www.HistoricalNovels.info

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Miss Moppet
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Location: North London
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Post by Miss Moppet » Wed July 4th, 2012, 11:04 pm

Margaret Mitchell was very concerned that Gone with the Wind did not feature battle scenes - yet it's one of the greatest war novels of all time. Instead of following Rhett or Ashley onto the battlefield, she showed Scarlett fleeing Atlanta as it burned and digging for vegetables in a burnt-out plantation - powerful scenes which told the story of how war affects the civilian population.

Apart from that, what everyone else said!

User avatar
Margaret
Bibliomaniac
Posts: 2440
Joined: August 2008
Interest in HF: I can't answer this in 100 characters. Sorry.
Favourite HF book: Checkmate, the final novel in the Lymond series
Preferred HF: Literary novels. Late medieval and Renaissance.
Location: Catskill, New York, USA
Contact:

Post by Margaret » Thu July 5th, 2012, 2:40 am

Instead of following Rhett or Ashley onto the battlefield, she showed Scarlett fleeing Atlanta as it burned and digging for vegetables in a burnt-out plantation - powerful scenes which told the story of how war affects the civilian population.
Yes. The scene in which a Yankee soldier confronts Scarlett on the plantation is especially chilling and memorable.
Browse over 5000 historical novel listings (probably well over 5000 by now, but I haven't re-counted lately) and over 700 reviews at www.HistoricalNovels.info

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Justin Swanton
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Posts: 173
Joined: February 2012
Location: Durban, South Africa
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Post by Justin Swanton » Thu July 5th, 2012, 11:45 am

[quote=""Margaret""]You've put your finger on a major but not-often-noted difference between the genders, I think (generally speaking - there are always exceptions and qualifications). Women tend to think less hierarchically than men. And we tend to forget that males in a hierarchical system are not always strutting around at the top![/quote]

From the Roman imperial period to quite recently most men lived in the shadow of a local lord. Until the end of the Middle Ages 95% of the population in western Europe lived in the countryside and, with the exception of a century of two after the collapse of the western Empire, most were tenant farmers. Tugged their forelocks and did as they were told.
Nunquam minus solus quam cum solus.

Author of Centurion's Daughter

Come visit my blog

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