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Arizona tragedy...A humbling Comment

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chuck
Bibliophile
Location: Ciinaminson NJ

Arizona tragedy...A humbling Comment

Postby chuck » Sun January 9th, 2011, 6:10 pm

Please! a call for decorum and civility from the Media(bloggers, twitters etc), Politicians and some elements of the American public....Both Liberal and Conservatives must lead the way...."This is a very dark day for America"....

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Divia
Bibliomaniac
Location: Always Cloudy, Central New York

Postby Divia » Sun January 9th, 2011, 9:10 pm

i thought the guy was a pyscho. He heard voices n' all. I mean how far away was he from an aluminum foil hat?

Can we truly blame his actions on the media?

Or have we become so polarized?
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Ash
Bibliomaniac
Location: Arizona, USA

Postby Ash » Mon January 10th, 2011, 1:28 am

I don't know about hearing voices. And yeah, he wasn't political. But when you hear and see the kind of images being displayed on tv, including the gun sights map on Palins PAC, when her opponent has an event to remove Gifford and has a gun available for people to shoot, and if you are just a tad crazy, I can see why he'd take it all as an invitation, even if he knew nothing about politics.

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Kveto from Prague
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Location: Prague, Bohemia

Postby Kveto from Prague » Mon January 10th, 2011, 6:47 pm

"Ash" wrote:I don't know about hearing voices. And yeah, he wasn't political. But when you hear and see the kind of images being displayed on tv, including the gun sights map on Palins PAC, when her opponent has an event to remove Gifford and has a gun available for people to shoot, and if you are just a tad crazy, I can see why he'd take it all as an invitation, even if he knew nothing about politics.


please pardon me for asking as i dont quite follow your comment, Ash. Are you saying that another politician had a website with a gun aimed at this politician to "remove" her? honestly? I did not know that.

I don't know the laws at all but isnt there a cupability limit to free speech, a kind of shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre type-limit. I mean if I go around saying "we should kill x", even tongue in cheek, don't I share some responsibility if someone takes me up on that? at least moraly? Isn't that the legal definition of assult?

I know thats an unanswerable question.

Sorry for your country's loss.

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Michy
Bibliophile
Location: California

Postby Michy » Mon January 10th, 2011, 8:51 pm

Kveto, from what I've heard on the news, either Sarah Palin's website, or that of her Political Action Committee, had an image that showed the state of Arizona in the cross-hairs of a rifle. Apparently, after the shooting this weekend that image was taken off the website.

Yes, there are legal ramifications for shouting "fire" in crowd, if it results in injury to others (causes a stampede or the like). In this particular instance, I don't think anyone can be blamed for this young man's behavior; from comments that schoolmates and acquaintances have made, he has exhibited strange and anti-social behaviour for quite some time. I think to pin the blame for this incident on any particular politician would be impossible. You could just as easily make the argument that his parents are to blame for allowing him to play violent video games and listen to music with violent and hate-filled lyrics (I don't know if they did, or not, but it's so common among young people that it wouldn't surprise me).
Last edited by Michy on Mon January 10th, 2011, 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SarahWoodbury
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Postby SarahWoodbury » Mon January 10th, 2011, 9:06 pm

You have to remember too, that the congresswoman's offices were vandalized in March in response for her voting for the health care bill.

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Michy
Bibliophile
Location: California

Postby Michy » Mon January 10th, 2011, 9:23 pm

Yes, and so was the office of another Arizona congressman. I'm sure his security detail has been beefed up.

ETA: It's too soon, yet, to assign political motives to this tragedy; it's not known, yet, what the young man's motives were. Apparently a copy of Mein Kampf was found among his belongings; Gabby Giffords is Jewish; therefore, his motive could have been anti-Semitism as much as political. All that is known for sure is that he is a very disturbed individual. I wonder if his parents ever sought help for him?
Last edited by Michy on Mon January 10th, 2011, 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ash
Bibliomaniac
Location: Arizona, USA

Postby Ash » Tue January 11th, 2011, 1:50 am

Kveto, not only did Palin have that map on her website (it is still on Huffington Post if you want to see it), but her opponent had an event called 'Target Gifford', where he invited people to shoot a gun at a target (not with a gifford picture but the the link could be easily inferred).

I am a member of the ACLU, so inhibiting free speech is hard for me. And yet - the 'church' of that family protesting at a soldiers funeral (they plan to attend the funeral of the young girl killed Saturday, and they tried to attend the Eliz Edwards funeral but were held back by masses of people) repells me to no end. So while I really think we need to back up and become more civil, I am not sure I in good consciense could demand that they do.

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Michy
Bibliophile
Location: California

Postby Michy » Tue January 11th, 2011, 2:07 am

I heard on the news this evening that the shooter is being charged with attempted assassination of Giffords, murder of her aide, murder of the Federal judge, and two counts of attempted murder. But what about the four other people he killed? Why isn't he being charged with those murders? Don't they matter?

I realize that all of the above counts are already enough to put him behind bars for the rest of his life. But still -- if I were a loved one of one of the other people killed, I would be upset that he wasn't charged with their murder, also.

The other man killed was apparently trying to shield his wife. She was wounded, but will be ok. I put myself in her shoes, and the emotions are unimaginable.
Last edited by Michy on Tue January 11th, 2011, 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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SonjaMarie
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Location: Vashon, WA
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Postby SonjaMarie » Tue January 11th, 2011, 3:09 am

Sigh, I just heard on ET that the youngest victim, who was 9, was born on 9/11/01. Born on an awful day and murdered 9 years later, awful, just awful!

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