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Constantinople/Byzantium

annis
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Post by annis » Tue February 24th, 2009, 4:27 am

Hi Richard - in the interests of preventing misleading advertising, I'd better point out that I later discovered that Harold Lamb's book is in fact non-fiction. However I have tried some of his non-fiction, and it is very readable.

I should add another Constantinople title here, too. This is the second in Richard Blake's series set in the early seventh century, featuring Aelric, a young Anglo-Saxon who is entrusted with the mission of saving and copying ancient manuscripts for the Roman Christian Church. This time he's sent to Constantinople, with a secret agenda.
"Terror of Constantinople"
I really enjoyed the first one, "Conspiracies of Rome".
Last edited by annis on Tue February 24th, 2009, 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Volgadon
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Post by Volgadon » Thu February 26th, 2009, 3:58 pm

Would anyone mind if I share some interesting snippets of Byzantine history I come across?

Barsumas (Bar Zoma), was a 5th century Syrian monk from Nusaybin (Nisibis) in south-eastern Turkey. During the course of his first pilgrimage to the Holy Land, he was set upon by a gang of Jewish and pagan hotheads (those two populations were the majority) and beaten up. Going on what is known of his character, I doubt it was unprovoked. Anyway, he swore revenge and on his next visit he gathered a gang of 40 fanatical monks and destroyed synagogues (both Jewish and Samaritan) and burned temples along the coast from Antioch to Jerusalem and then from Jerusalem to Sinai. If a town would shut its gates, the gang would break in someohow. His 3rd visit was uneventful and he attempted by peaceful means to convince the Samaritans to convert but with little success, unsurprisingly. As it coincided with Empress Eudocia's visit he probably figured that discretion was the greater part of valour. He needn't have worried as she became devoted to him when they met. His rage erupted again during the 4th visit when the empress allowed the Jews to visit Jerusalem during the holidays. His gang would beat up Jewish pilgrims and the violence peaked during Succot (the feast of tabernacles) on the Temple Mount with a mass riot. A decade later, Barsumas, now an archimandrite started a riot when his friend Eutyches was accused of heresy during a feud with a fellow cleric. A synod was convened at Ephesus and Barsumas called as a judge. He brought a 1000 monks with him to make the council an offer they couldn't refuse...
No wonder history has labelled it the Robber's Synod.
After Eutyches's acquital, Barsumas attacked the aged Flavian, who had headed the proceedings against the priest. Flavian died of his wounds a few days later.

annis
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Post by annis » Thu February 26th, 2009, 5:05 pm

Blimey! Reading the history of the early Christian church, one thing that strikes you is the contentious and disputatious nature of so many of the clerics. And often the things that sent them into a violent frenzy were such minor points of interpretation. I often wonder how the fundamental law taught by Jesus got so lost: "Love thy neighbour as thyself".

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Volgadon
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Post by Volgadon » Thu February 26th, 2009, 5:50 pm

That still goes on in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, where the three big churches (Roman, Greek and Armenian) squabble over trivialities such as who gets to sweep which flagstone. Each side sends its toughest monks. Many of the Greeks used to be boxers and soldiers. There have been cases where monks bit each others ears off.
The pretext for the Crimean War was rooted in another of those squabbles.

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Richard
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Post by Richard » Thu February 26th, 2009, 5:52 pm

One of the biggest arguments was over a single Latin word, "filioque". Christians from everywhere held conferences at Nicaea, to decide issues and unify the faith. It's from one of these councils that we get the Nicene Creed. In the Greek version, the Holy Spirit and Jesus the Son "proceed from the Father.". But when the Western clerics returned home and translated it to Latin they added "filioque", and thus Western churches today say the Spirit proceeds "from the Father and from the Son" when we recite the creed. Many say that this one word, in translation, was a big enough deal to split the Church into East and West. Ithink the schism had more to do with political-religious power myself, but they really did get quite worked up about it.
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Volgadon
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Post by Volgadon » Thu February 26th, 2009, 6:54 pm

The main sticking point was the authority of the Pope. To simplify the issue, the western segments of the church wanted him to be recognised as the head of the church whereas the eastern segments were opposed to the idea.

annis
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Post by annis » Fri February 27th, 2009, 5:07 am

Posted by Richard
Christians from everywhere held conferences at Nicaea, to decide issues and unify the faith.
Lol- didn't work too well- just don't mention the Arians!

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Jack
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Post by Jack » Sat July 4th, 2009, 7:29 pm

A couple of good books about the Byzantine period are:
THE EMPEROR'S WINDING SHEET, By Jill Paton Walsh; and THE GENTLE INFIDEL, by Lawrence Schoonover. As to the squables in the first seven councils, see THE MAKING OF THE CREEDS, sorry, but the author's name escapes me at the moment, and I'm a few days away from back surgery so I can't get up and find things as easily as I used to. I agree that the Byzantine Empire is fertile ground that has been too little tilled by authors to date. It seems back in the 50s there was interest, but that may have been a hold over from the war and the exposure some of that area got at the time. Someone go to it and write us up something interesting!
Jack

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Post by Ash » Sat July 4th, 2009, 7:55 pm

I read The Emperor's Winding Sheet (I have read most of her books), and found it very good - esp for a YA novel. Thanks for the other recs! (hope you heal quickly!)

<edit>This one? http://www.amazon.com/Making-Creeds-scm ... 0334028760
Last edited by Ash on Sat July 4th, 2009, 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jack
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Post by Jack » Sun July 5th, 2009, 6:39 am

(I read The Emperor's Winding Sheet (I have read most of her books), and found it very good - esp for a YA novel. Thanks for the other recs! (hope you heal quickly)

Hey. if you wouldn't mind. which of her books did you most like, and why? I'm going to put out a reading list (Suggestions for soeone whose going to be convelescing for a while.) I'm sure it happens to others out there!

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