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Anglo-Saxon England

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Shield-of-Dardania
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Postby Shield-of-Dardania » Mon November 21st, 2011, 10:50 am

Back to Saxon names. I just came across a familiar name, from some gamer site, I think. Wilhelm.

It's a Germanic name, I believe. But it was Sir Wilhelm in that site, and it just sounded to me like it could make an interesting name for a Saxon gentleman.
Last edited by Shield-of-Dardania on Mon November 21st, 2011, 11:38 am, edited 3 times in total.

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EC2
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Postby EC2 » Mon November 21st, 2011, 5:29 pm

It's not a typical Englisc name - although with a couple of million inhabitants, there may have been an occasional one. Wilhelm more or less comes over to England with William the Conqueror, and you would expect to see it in a Norman or Anglo Norman context rather than a Saxon one. :)
Les proz e les vassals
Souvent entre piez de chevals
Kar ja li coard n’I chasront

'The Brave and the valiant
Are always to be found between the hooves of horses
For never will cowards fall down there.'

Histoire de Guillaume le Mareschal

www.elizabethchadwick.com

SGM
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Postby SGM » Mon November 21st, 2011, 8:16 pm

"Shield-of-Dardania" wrote:Back to Saxon names. I just came across a familiar name, from some gamer site, I think. Wilhelm.

It's a Germanic name, I believe. But it was Sir Wilhelm in that site, and it just sounded to me like it could make an interesting name for a Saxon gentleman.


I don't know the history of the "W" in the Anglo-Saxon tongue but I do know that as far as French is concerned, it unusual except in Norman French. I presume that this owed something to their Viking inheritance.
Currently reading - Emergence of a Nation State by Alan Smith

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EC2
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Postby EC2 » Mon November 21st, 2011, 10:40 pm

"SGM" wrote:I don't know the history of the "W" in the Anglo-Saxon tongue but I do know that as far as French is concerned, it unusual except in Norman French. I presume that this owed something to their Viking inheritance.


Really? I'm coming across it all over the place in France and her allies while researching up Eleanor of Aquitaine. Seems pretty common to me.

Edited to say Oh, 'W' rather than 'William'? Sorry. I've found William all over the place in Anglo-Norman. I've not studied much primary source in Old French re the 'W'. Secondary sources use 'William' but of course it could be Guillaume/Guilhelm etc - written anyway. I don't know how they spoke it.
Last edited by EC2 on Mon November 21st, 2011, 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Les proz e les vassals

Souvent entre piez de chevals

Kar ja li coard n’I chasront



'The Brave and the valiant
Are always to be found between the hooves of horses
For never will cowards fall down there.'


Histoire de Guillaume le Mareschal



www.elizabethchadwick.com

annis
Bibliomaniac

Postby annis » Mon November 21st, 2011, 11:43 pm

It seems to be the general opinion that there were variations in pronunciation of the sound represented by the Germanic runic symbol wynn. For instance, the Norsemen pronounced W as a V, but it's thought that Anglo-Saxons had adapted this to the modern W sound by 600AD. I believe there were problems translating this Anglo-Saxon sound into Latin, which didn't have it as part of the alphabet and that is why it became represented by a double-V letter.
Last edited by annis on Mon November 21st, 2011, 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SGM
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Postby SGM » Tue November 22nd, 2011, 6:21 pm

"EC2" wrote:Really? I'm coming across it all over the place in France and her allies while researching up Eleanor of Aquitaine. Seems pretty common to me.

Edited to say Oh, 'W' rather than 'William'? Sorry. I've found William all over the place in Anglo-Norman. I've not studied much primary source in Old French re the 'W'. Secondary sources use 'William' but of course it could be Guillaume/Guilhelm etc - written anyway. I don't know how they spoke it.


It's what my sister tells me. French is her subject academically (along with other Romance languages) and she has lived there since the 70s and was bilingual even before that and is has a firm grasp on the linguistic developments and old French. She has always assured me that the "W" comes from Norman French and is not very commonly used. Of course, it would be interesting to know whether it existed in those areas of France that would have fallen within the "Languadoc" language areas as the supposition about the Viking intrusion is my own and may well be inaccurate.

"William", of course, is rendered by the French would be as you state above (or variations on that spelling).
Last edited by SGM on Tue November 22nd, 2011, 6:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Currently reading - Emergence of a Nation State by Alan Smith

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Shield-of-Dardania
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Postby Shield-of-Dardania » Wed November 23rd, 2011, 3:59 am

"EC2" wrote:It's not a typical Englisc name - although with a couple of million inhabitants, there may have been an occasional one. Wilhelm more or less comes over to England with William the Conqueror, and you would expect to see it in a Norman or Anglo Norman context rather than a Saxon one. :)

Right. I suppose one could explain away the William/Wilhelm name in slightly pre-Norman (early 11C) time as a name brought by pre-invasion Norman immigrants to England (my favourite ploy).

Just for confirmation, is Guilhelm pronounced the same way, or nearly the same way, as Wilhelm?

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Nefret
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Postby Nefret » Mon September 10th, 2012, 6:01 am

Are there any novel's about Æthelflæd? I wanted to read about her, and any other Saxon women.
Last edited by Nefret on Mon September 10th, 2012, 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Into battle we ride with Gods by our side
We are strong and not afraid to die
We have an urge to kill and our lust for blood has to be fulfilled
WE´LL FIGHT TILL THE END! And send our enemies straight to Hell!
- "Into Battle"
{Ensiferum}

annis
Bibliomaniac

Postby annis » Mon September 10th, 2012, 7:08 am

Judith Arnopp has posted a useful biography of Æthelflæd here which you might find interesting.

http://www.freewebs.com/judyarnoppsmedievalpage/aethelflaed.htm

As far as fiction goes, the list on her Wikipedia page under the heading In Popular Culture covers all the novels featuring Æthelflæd that I've come across, but I haven't read any myself, apart from Bernard Cornwell's stories. Æthelflæd also makes an appearance in V M Whitworth's Bone Thief, but although she is a major player, she isn't the central protagonist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Æthelflæd

You might like to try the story of her parents in Joan Wolf's The Edge of Light.
Last edited by annis on Mon September 10th, 2012, 7:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Carla
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Postby Carla » Tue November 6th, 2012, 12:28 pm

"annis" wrote:You might like to try the story of her parents in Joan Wolf's The Edge of Light.


I second The Edge of Light. Ealhswith (spelling simplified to Elswyth in the novel), King Alfred's queen, is at least as central a character as Alfred himself.

Nicola Griffith is expecting to have her novel Hild (about Abbess Hild of Whitby) published in autumn 2013: http://gemaecca.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/hild-publishing-deal.html, so that's one to look out for.
PATHS OF EXILE - love, war, honour and betrayal in Anglo-Saxon Northumbria
Editor's Choice, Historical Novels Review, August 2009
Now available as e-book on Amazon Kindleand in Kindle, Epub (Nook, Sony Reader), Palm and other formats on Smashwords
Website: http://www.carlanayland.org
Blog: http://carlanayland.blogspot.com


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