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For discussions of historical fiction. Threads that do not relate to historical fiction should be started in the Chat forum or elsewhere on the forum, depending on the topic.
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Lisa
Bibliophile
Posts: 1153
Joined: August 2012
Favourite HF book: Here Be Dragons by Sharon Kay Penman
Preferred HF: Any time period/location. Timeslip, usually prefer female POV. Also love Gothic melodrama.
Location: Northeast Scotland

Post by Lisa » Mon February 2nd, 2015, 7:26 pm

Off the top of my head, another example of historical thriller (in my opinion) would be Nancy Bilyeau's The Crown and The Chalice (and probably the third upcoming one too).

Carla
Compulsive Reader
Posts: 965
Joined: August 2008
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Post by Carla » Tue February 3rd, 2015, 6:47 pm

[quote=""MLE (Emily Cotton)""]Can't see any reason for suspense on that account, Carla--History calls her Maria Pacheco, though correctly it would be Maria (Blanca) Mendoza y Pacheco, wife of Juan Padilla. Much excoriated throught Spanish history as a woman who converted her perfectly proper hidalgo husband into the kind of man who would lead a peasant's revolt! And then, when he lost the battle and got beheaded, put her son on a donkey with a portrait of her beloved husband (the unwanted betrothed in my story), marched through the streets of Toledo and inspired resistance to the entire army of Emperor Charles V for nine solid months! (Parts of said army led by her older brothers, to increase the drama.)
Negotiated a surrender, but had to slip away in the middle of the night. Charles V never forgave her (she stayed in Portugal with a death sentence on her head) despite the efforts of all her brothers, who were, in order, President of the royal council and governor of Granada; Viceroy of Mexico and later of Peru; Admiral of the Spanish Navy; Cardinal of Spain, and Ambassador to England/Venice/Rome/Pope-maker and celebrated author. And older sister (also Maria) was a literary light, too.

She remains to this day the black sheep of the Mendozas. But they were an interesting bunch!

Egad, I left out daddy, don Inigo Lopez de Mendoza y Quinones, Marques of Mondejar, II Count Tendilla, hero of the Reconquista, wonderfully acerbic letter-writer, cultured, tolerant, and the only thing that kept Granada for Spain. They call him 'The Great Tendilla'.[/quote]

Thanks, MLE! She sounds a remarkable lady! I'd never heard of her before. Looking forward to your book :-)
PATHS OF EXILE - love, war, honour and betrayal in Anglo-Saxon Northumbria
Editor's Choice, Historical Novels Review, August 2009
Now available as e-book on Amazon Kindleand in Kindle, Epub (Nook, Sony Reader), Palm and other formats on Smashwords
Website: http://www.carlanayland.org
Blog: http://carlanayland.blogspot.com

User avatar
MLE (Emily Cotton)
Bibliomaniac
Posts: 3562
Joined: August 2008
Interest in HF: started in childhood with the classics, which, IMHO are HF even if they were contemporary when written.
Favourite HF book: Prince of Foxes, by Samuel Shellabarger
Preferred HF: Currently prefer 1600 and earlier, but I'll read anything that keeps me turning the page.
Location: California Bay Area

Post by MLE (Emily Cotton) » Tue February 3rd, 2015, 11:37 pm

[quote=""Carla""]Thanks, MLE! She sounds a remarkable lady! I'd never heard of her before. Looking forward to your book :-) [/quote]

That's the joy of a series. There's always time to get to the next historical bombshell. :D
The fun thing about renaissance Spain is that, while the period is getting more familiar to readers and viewers via show/books on the Tudors and the Borgias (who were Spanish, BTW) all the really juicy and marvellously well-documented famous folk of Castile, Portugal and Aragon are virtually unknown among English-speaking readers. I go into each novel assuming that the average reader knows four things about Spain: Ferdinand, Isabella, Columbus, and Inquisition. And if they know a fifth, it's don Quixote.

What is sad is that from 1500-1600 the Iberian peninsula was the pivot of world history. Spain owned the Americas, and Portugal the Indian Ocean. The Spanish ruler also controlled more of Europe via the Holy Roman Empire than any nation since Rome -- maybe even more than Rome. England under the Tudors was nothing more than an unimportant little backwater.

But all most know about the renaissance is Henry VIII and his kids. :rolleyes: With a little Italy on the side.

Readers are missing out on so much good drama!
Edited to say English readers. I won't be the first to write about Maria Pacheco, there are several Spanish novels, a play, and even a movie. I think it's called 'Lioness of Castile'.http://www.jinni.com/movies/the-lioness-of-castille/
Last edited by MLE (Emily Cotton) on Tue February 3rd, 2015, 11:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
MLE (Emily Cotton)
Bibliomaniac
Posts: 3562
Joined: August 2008
Interest in HF: started in childhood with the classics, which, IMHO are HF even if they were contemporary when written.
Favourite HF book: Prince of Foxes, by Samuel Shellabarger
Preferred HF: Currently prefer 1600 and earlier, but I'll read anything that keeps me turning the page.
Location: California Bay Area

Post by MLE (Emily Cotton) » Tue February 3rd, 2015, 11:53 pm

[quote=""LadyB""]Off the top of my head, another example of historical thriller (in my opinion) would be Nancy Bilyeau's The Crown and The Chalice (and probably the third upcoming one too).[/quote]
I've read the Crown and liked it. But Nancy's characters are all searching for a 'grail-like object' -- mine just want to stay alive.

Now three books down, in the Inca's Ransom, everybody is actually searching for (drumroll of surprise) the Inca's ransom. But the main characters, both New World and Old, mostly want it so they can stay alive. My characters can tell you that it is darn hard to survive in one of my stories.

An object in a story that everybody runs around trying to find has a special term, but I can't remember what it is.

Carla
Compulsive Reader
Posts: 965
Joined: August 2008
Contact:

Post by Carla » Wed February 4th, 2015, 12:55 am

[quote=""MLE (Emily Cotton)""]That's the joy of a series. There's always time to get to the next historical bombshell. :D
The fun thing about renaissance Spain is that, while the period is getting more familiar to readers and viewers via show/books on the Tudors and the Borgias (who were Spanish, BTW) all the really juicy and marvellously well-documented famous folk of Castile, Portugal and Aragon are virtually unknown among English-speaking readers. I go into each novel assuming that the average reader knows four things about Spain: Ferdinand, Isabella, Columbus, and Inquisition. And if they know a fifth, it's don Quixote.
[/quote]
Perhaps with the addition of El Cid :-)

Must be great fun writing about an era that's not been done to death and is well-documented. History is stranger than fiction and real life is full of extraordinary events that would be dismissed as 'far-fetched' if a novelist made them up. Let us all know when your books are available!
PATHS OF EXILE - love, war, honour and betrayal in Anglo-Saxon Northumbria
Editor's Choice, Historical Novels Review, August 2009
Now available as e-book on Amazon Kindleand in Kindle, Epub (Nook, Sony Reader), Palm and other formats on Smashwords
Website: http://www.carlanayland.org
Blog: http://carlanayland.blogspot.com

Carla
Compulsive Reader
Posts: 965
Joined: August 2008
Contact:

Post by Carla » Wed February 4th, 2015, 12:56 am

[quote=""MLE (Emily Cotton)""]I've read the Crown and liked it. But Nancy's characters are all searching for a 'grail-like object' -- mine just want to stay alive.

Now three books down, in the Inca's Ransom, everybody is actually searching for (drumroll of surprise) the Inca's ransom. But the main characters, both New World and Old, mostly want it so they can stay alive. My characters can tell you that it is darn hard to survive in one of my stories.

An object in a story that everybody runs around trying to find has a special term, but I can't remember what it is.[/quote]

A McGuffin? (Or is that only in science fiction?)
PATHS OF EXILE - love, war, honour and betrayal in Anglo-Saxon Northumbria
Editor's Choice, Historical Novels Review, August 2009
Now available as e-book on Amazon Kindleand in Kindle, Epub (Nook, Sony Reader), Palm and other formats on Smashwords
Website: http://www.carlanayland.org
Blog: http://carlanayland.blogspot.com

User avatar
MLE (Emily Cotton)
Bibliomaniac
Posts: 3562
Joined: August 2008
Interest in HF: started in childhood with the classics, which, IMHO are HF even if they were contemporary when written.
Favourite HF book: Prince of Foxes, by Samuel Shellabarger
Preferred HF: Currently prefer 1600 and earlier, but I'll read anything that keeps me turning the page.
Location: California Bay Area

Post by MLE (Emily Cotton) » Wed February 4th, 2015, 3:54 am

Yes. McGuffin, that's the word. Something that everybody has to have and will kill to get. Like the Grail.

I hope to get the series out this year, Carla, or most of them. I'm just such a nit-picker, and every time a beta (I have a few hundred by now) gives me a better idea, I just have to go change things. I have gotten some REALLY good ideas from Betas, and some well-deserved criticism too. I guess I rather like the writing more than the idea of being published. (I've been published, non-fiction, and it got old quickly.)
In order, the series is:
Barbarossa's Barb
Eva's Secret*
Aldonza's Revenge
Blanca's Revolt**
the Inca's Ransom*
The Llama God*
*(these have been out a while under a pen name, but are back in the shop for a tune-up)
** this one still in first draft. At my glacial rate of re-re-re-writing, it will be a while.
Last edited by MLE (Emily Cotton) on Wed February 4th, 2015, 4:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

Carla
Compulsive Reader
Posts: 965
Joined: August 2008
Contact:

Post by Carla » Wed February 4th, 2015, 6:46 pm

Thanks - these sound like books to look out for!

If you like the writing more than the idea of 'being published', I'd say that bodes well for your eventual readers :-)
PATHS OF EXILE - love, war, honour and betrayal in Anglo-Saxon Northumbria
Editor's Choice, Historical Novels Review, August 2009
Now available as e-book on Amazon Kindleand in Kindle, Epub (Nook, Sony Reader), Palm and other formats on Smashwords
Website: http://www.carlanayland.org
Blog: http://carlanayland.blogspot.com

Barcelona
Scribbler
Posts: 13
Joined: April 2015

2 kinds of readers?

Post by Barcelona » Tue May 19th, 2015, 6:48 pm

Could one make a difference between historical “Chick-Lit” and “the rest”? I say this in the sense that perhaps historical “Chick-Lit” applies to one kind of reader, and “the rest” to another category, that of course has its own sub-categories such as mentioned by MLE (Action-adventure, historical suspense, historical mystery..). Could it be said that Pride & Prejudice was the chick-Lit of its day?

User avatar
MLE (Emily Cotton)
Bibliomaniac
Posts: 3562
Joined: August 2008
Interest in HF: started in childhood with the classics, which, IMHO are HF even if they were contemporary when written.
Favourite HF book: Prince of Foxes, by Samuel Shellabarger
Preferred HF: Currently prefer 1600 and earlier, but I'll read anything that keeps me turning the page.
Location: California Bay Area

Post by MLE (Emily Cotton) » Tue May 19th, 2015, 10:40 pm

I'd say that Pride and Predjudice is the chick-lit of TODAY. Back when it was first published, there weren't so many genres, because there weren't so many reader, nor so many books. Only as paper got cheaper and literacy much more common--and leisure time more available, and lighting technology improved (here I include the whale-oil and kerosene lamp as well as the gas and electric services) did genres come into their own.

There were the'penny dreadfuls'that really kicked off the genre trend, followed by pulp fiction. But story is story is story, and if it meets the need, people will snap it up.

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