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March 2011 Book of the Month: The Raven's Bride by Lenore Hart

A monthly discussion on varying themes guided by our members. (Book of the Month discussions through December 2011 can be found in this section too.)
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Misfit
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Post by Misfit » Fri March 18th, 2011, 12:29 pm

[quote=""Undine""]I haven't seen this board at Amazon, but I know this poster--he's been a lot more than just testy with me for what I've said about the book. I take it he's somehow professionally affiliated with Hart--I don't know if he's her agent, or editor, or what, but he's definitely not a disinterested witness.[/quote]

That is very much the impression I've received from the tone of his comments and responses to others who haven't waved the light fantastic over the book. I tried googling that name + author but didn't get any hits to a connection.
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Post by Misfit » Fri March 18th, 2011, 12:30 pm

[quote=""boswellbaxter""]I enjoyed it, but I didn't read the blog post until I had finished it. I've gone ahead and ordered The Very Young Mrs. Poe--it will be interesting to compare for myself.[/quote]

I'm thinking of cancelling my hold and waiting for other opinions as well as your comparison to the two. I have plenty to read anyway and it will still be there if I change my mind.
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Post by Undine » Fri March 18th, 2011, 12:31 pm

[quote=""boswellbaxter""]I enjoyed it, but I didn't read the blog post until I had finished it. I've gone ahead and ordered The Very Young Mrs. Poe--it will be interesting to compare for myself.[/quote]

I'll be interested to hear your comparison. There are differences between the two books, of course--Hart's "ghost" motif (although she didn't "do" as much with that as I'd expected--I got the feeling she tacked it on at the beginning and end of the book at the last moment, without really bothering to incorporate in the narrative the fact that it was related by the dead Virginia,) and O'Neal has a different perspective on the physical relationship between the Poes.

As I said, though, the similiarities get pretty overwhelming when you read certain chapers side-by-side.

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Post by boswellbaxter » Wed March 23rd, 2011, 7:03 pm

Well, I just got my copy of The Very Young Mrs. Poe, and read the chapter where Sissy and Edgar first arrive in Richmond and next one with the Rosalie visit, and the similarities in the descriptions and the dialogue are very unsettling. I'd like to think this was unconscious on the author's part.
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Post by Undine » Wed March 23rd, 2011, 9:54 pm

[quote=""boswellbaxter""]I'd like to think this was unconscious on the author's part.[/quote]

I've been wondering about that. You'd think she'd have to be either crazy or the biggest idiot on two feet to do this deliberately, and I find it hard to believe she's either one. I'm not saying everything in the two books are alike, of course--O'Neal and Hart take markedly different paths with Virginia on several occasions. However, there are a few scenes in particular--scenes, mark you, which O'Neal invented from whole cloth--where I could only think that Hart must have literally been holding a copy of VYMS open in front of her as she wrote. There are passages and/or lines of dialogue that are simply too similar to have been done unconsciously, from childhood memories of the much-earlier novel.

Which just leaves me scratching my head and wondering, what was she thinking?

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Post by boswellbaxter » Wed March 23rd, 2011, 10:25 pm

[quote=""Undine""]

Which just leaves me scratching my head and wondering, what was she thinking?[/quote]

Especially since she teaches creative writing, if I recall correctly. That's the sort of thing that would get a student kicked out of such a program.
Susan Higginbotham
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Post by Misfit » Wed March 23rd, 2011, 10:29 pm

[quote=""Undine""]I've been wondering about that. You'd think she'd have to be either crazy or the biggest idiot on two feet to do this deliberately, and I find it hard to believe she's either one. I'm not saying everything in the two books are alike, of course--O'Neal and Hart take markedly different paths with Virginia on several occasions. However, there are a few scenes in particular--scenes, mark you, which O'Neal invented from whole cloth--where I could only think that Hart must have literally been holding a copy of VYMS open in front of her as she wrote. There are passages and/or lines of dialogue that are simply too similar to have been done unconsciously, from childhood memories of the much-earlier novel.

Which just leaves me scratching my head and wondering, what was she thinking?[/quote]

Is the older novel so obscure that one would never have expected anyone to notice?

The one commenter I mentioned at the Amazon HF boards I've noticed is also all over commenting on the reviews there as well and someone's called him out on it. I just so dislike it when someone is so obssessive over reviews and every little comment made on a book. We had an author doing that at Goodreads over every comment of her book and we finally had to take the chat private so we could talk freely. Not a good thing.
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Post by boswellbaxter » Tue November 22nd, 2011, 4:03 am

The allegations of plagiarism are getting some more exposure:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/no ... CMP=twt_fd
Susan Higginbotham
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Post by Divia » Wed November 23rd, 2011, 9:29 pm

Hmm. I'm afraid I haven't read the first one. But I have to say the second one is written better. Or as Alcott would say it is "prettier."

I dunno if she did it on purpose or not. But it is interesting to see that someone is gunning for the author. That's in poor taste. If the one who is on a crusade dislikes the book then why haven't THEY written a book about Poe?

Kinda reminds me of the lady who loves Joan of Arc and has a website dedicated to her. If any book isn't chrisitan enough for her she goes on a holy crusade to rip it apart.
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Post by Misfit » Sat December 10th, 2011, 12:38 am

Just spotted this mention over at Dear Author.
Despite the similarities in several passages between Lenore Hart’s “The Raven’s Bride” published by St. Martin’s Press and The Very Young Mrs. Poe written by Cothburn O’Neal and published in 1956, SMP is standing by its author. The smoking gun, according to others, is that Hart copies and incorporates made up facts about Poe’s wife that originally appeared in O’Neal’s fictional work. O’Neal passed away which probably lends itself well to Hart and SMP’s defense. SMP argues that the author came up with the same made up facts on her own. Source: NY Times blog

In April 2011, when these allegations first came to our attention, Ms. Hart supplied a detailed response, which cited her research into biographical and historical sources, and explained why her novel and Cothburn O’Neal’s “The Very Young Mrs. Poe” contain certain details of place, description and incident. As Ms. Hart explained in her response, of course two novels about the same historical figure necessarily reliant on the same limited historical record will have similarities. We have reviewed that response and remain satisfied with Ms. Hart’s explanation.
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