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August 2009: Company of Liars by Karen Maitland

A monthly discussion on varying themes guided by our members. (Book of the Month discussions through December 2011 can be found in this section too.)
annis
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Post by annis » Mon August 31st, 2009, 7:26 am

I think that Richard had the glamour expected of a king. He was a larger-than-life character, cut a heroic figure and was a warrior of great prowess and courage. And quite right, he wasn't around long enough for the glamour to wear thin :)

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Madeleine
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Post by Madeleine » Mon August 31st, 2009, 12:36 pm

Michael Jecks's series of books set in the early 1300s also features coroners!
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Ash
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Post by Ash » Mon August 31st, 2009, 12:43 pm

Ok, thanks. But something tells me they didn't talk like Sherlock Holmes (trying to remember in Caedfael, if there was a character who acted as a coroner. Think he was his own, as he investigated murders)

annis
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Post by annis » Mon August 31st, 2009, 8:45 pm

Posted by Margaret
The Scandalous Women blog recently interviewed Cross and asked her how it would have been possible for Joan to successfully disguise herself as a man for so long. Cross points out that some 400 soldiers who fought in the American Civil War were actually women disguised as men!
I'm reminded of Terry Pratchett's very funny "Monstrous Regiment"!

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Post by Ash » Mon September 7th, 2009, 11:33 pm

[quote=""annis""]
I'm sure there's a Susanna Gregory story which has a child or children as murderers, though the title isn't coming to mind right now. Come to think of it, several of her "Matthew Bartholomew" mysteries feature the plague.[/quote]

There is of course the famous Bad Seed, originally a play, then a movie. Play can be very very spooky when done right. Movie is a bit melodramatic, with a Hollywood ending. But worth watching, certainly for the genetic element introduced. Oh and the gal playing Rhonda in the movie is Patty McCormack, kind of fun to see her grow as an actress over the years.

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Ludmilla
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Post by Ludmilla » Tue September 8th, 2009, 10:45 am

Finished this last night and enjoyed it. I did think the setup was rather long; I didn't really start to get into it until the second half of the novel. I liked the fairy tale connection, and probably spent too much of the novel looking for connections on that level.

Narigorm's description reminded me of a Poe film I saw when I was young (and I can't remember how faithful the film was to the stories), but in this film the Devil is portrayed as a young, silvery-haired girl. It haunted me for a long time after that, so I've never forgotten the image. I also found myself thinking of the film "The Seventh Seal", also about a group of travellers trying to outrun the plague and a knight who plays chess with Death to forestall his claim on the victims.

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Post by Ash » Tue September 8th, 2009, 1:16 pm

I had written Karen with some of my questions regarding the use of Yiddish at that time period. She sent me a very quick (like less than 6 hours!) and generous response below

Dear Cindy,
Great that you got Pleasance's secret at that point, which is what I intended. I meant for readers to guess all the characters secrets before the other characters so that they could anticipate the trouble ahead, but feedback from readers seems to suggest that only about 20% do so, which is equally good if it comes as a surprise to some.

The words which Pleasance uses were in use in their early form in Medieval Jewish communities across Europe at that time. I selected words which were in use throughout the Ashkenazi Jewish world, not just in the developing Yiddish speaking areas. Yiddish evolved, as you quite rightly say from a large, but not exclusively, Germany influence and was also influenced by Hebrew and other languages.

In Norwich, England in the early 1200's there was a very important Talmudic school with a number of German scholars who brought with them the early kabbalistic and mystic writings which employed the specific terms Pleasance uses, though of course in an earlier form. I used the later form, just as I use modern English instead of Chaucer's English which my characters would have spoken at the time, because otherwise it wouldn't be understood by modern readers.

Before they were expelled, many English Jews traded with and studied in Germany and Jews also traded with Italy, so certainly while you are right there is no evidence to suggest that Yiddish as a language was spoken in England or Italy at that time, by 1348 the particular words which Pleasance uses appear to have been familiar to Jews right across both Eastern and Western Europe. The story Pleasance tells has it origins in the pre-Roman period before the Diaspora, and simplified variations of it are found in both Ashenazi and Sephardic oral traditions, adapted to the local conditions.

I'm afraid it now being three books ago, I can't recall Pleasance referring to the Jewish quarter in Venice, though Rodrigo describes it. I'll need to go back and see what he says to pick up the word you are querying, but it may take me a while to get back to you on that one as deadlines are pressing hard.

Thank you again so much for your interest and I'll back to on the Venice question when I've time to check back through the book,
warmest wishes,
Karen

Last edited by Ash on Tue September 8th, 2009, 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ludmilla
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Post by Ludmilla » Wed September 9th, 2009, 4:34 pm

[quote=""Lady Macbeth""]Here be spoilers............
So many other novels came to mind when reading this - the Hobbit flashed back strongly, probably the road-trip theme and, often, the movie Pan's Labyrinth.

In the end, as we are relying on Camelot to narrate the story, do we really trust what he was saying? This is a deeply superstitious time and belief in witches was strongly held - so is Camelot's version of the story to be believed? Was Narigorm really to blame for their misfortunes or is this just a fantasy created and told by Camelot to somehow make sense and reason of the terrible times they were existing in? Shades of Pan's Labyrinth here.

[/quote]

Camelot mentions hope repeatedly throughout the novel. I think the Pan's Labyrinth theme is particularly relevant to Cygnus -- his withering wing and loss of feathers symbolize that loss of hope. Even Camelot's tone toward the end changes toward the need for hope. Underscoring all of that is the need to tell stories.

Entangled with the lies would be mortal sins as perceived by Christians. It was interesting that a pagan god should provide the ultimate justice for the atonement (or punishment) of those sins.

Does anyone else find themselves trying to avoid using gender-specific pronouns in this discussion? Not easy!

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Margaret
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Post by Margaret » Thu September 10th, 2009, 4:56 am

I went through some contortions when I reviewed this so as not to give away any spoilers, without being inaccurate! Hopefully, the contortions don't show in the finished review.
Browse over 5000 historical novel listings (probably well over 5000 by now, but I haven't re-counted lately) and over 700 reviews at www.HistoricalNovels.info

annis
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Post by annis » Thu September 10th, 2009, 7:31 am

Darn - I just realised that I've ben posting on this thread assuming that readers/posters will have read the book --- oops! Makes it a bit hard to discuss in any depth if you're trying not to give anything away.

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