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The Taming of the Queen

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Susan
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Re: The Taming of the Queen

Post by Susan » Mon August 31st, 2015, 12:39 am

I read the spoilers. OMG!!! :shock: I guess I made the right decision to stop reading Philippa Gregory after someone here scared me off The Other Queen.
~Susan~
~Unofficial Royalty~
Royal news updated daily, information and discussion about royalty past and present
http://www.unofficialroyalty.com/

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Misfit
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Re: The Taming of the Queen

Post by Misfit » Mon August 31st, 2015, 12:46 am

Not questioning her right to write how she pleases, but that is too far beyond the pale for my tastes.
At home with a good book and the cat...
...is the only place I want to be

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Misfit
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Re: The Taming of the Queen

Post by Misfit » Mon August 31st, 2015, 1:52 am

From the author's notes about that scene:
At home with a good book and the cat...
...is the only place I want to be

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MLE (Emily Cotton)
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Interest in HF: started in childhood with the classics, which, IMHO are HF even if they were contemporary when written.
Favourite HF book: Prince of Foxes, by Samuel Shellabarger
Preferred HF: Currently prefer 1600 and earlier, but I'll read anything that keeps me turning the page.
Location: California Bay Area

Re: The Taming of the Queen

Post by MLE (Emily Cotton) » Mon August 31st, 2015, 4:59 am

PG seems to have forgotten that the point of a novel is to entertain.
Heck, I have done write-ups for real things that are happening to real children right now, in various parts of the world. And the source material would make even PG cringe. Do I put any of that into the appeals for $$ to help stop the abuse? Of course not! If children have to endure that, why multiply it across the minds of people who have been spared, just because it feeds some misplaced moral indignation of the writer?

Fiction is a very powerful tool, but bludgeoning people with gross-out is like thinking you can repair a swiss watch with a framing hammer.

SCW
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Preferred HF: Lately World Two or the time immediately before and after this period
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Re: The Taming of the Queen

Post by SCW » Mon August 31st, 2015, 7:01 am

Methinks the 22.95 (which is how much the book is retailing for in my country) would be better off staying in my pocket.

The Guardian's review was quite exact.

I don't like how PG takes some minor salacious detail (which probably never happened- given how bad Henry's leg was) and then presents it as the truth.

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Misfit
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Re: The Taming of the Queen

Post by Misfit » Mon August 31st, 2015, 2:57 pm

Library only, or better yet don't bother. I get that PG wanted to make a point about Henry's dominating "taming" Katherine, but that was just a cheap, tacky, offensive stunt. And the way people thought of Henry and the way the word "killer" was used in reference towards him really didn't fit. IMO "killer" isn't quite the right word for
What I don't get is all the rave reviews, let alone no one mentions that disturbing scene that I quoted from above. I only quoted some of it, it was so degrading and so unnecessary, and just for added drama? What's ironic, is all those PC minded readers who blather on about rapey aspects in the older romances, or even Jamie spanking Claire in Outlander (there were Reasons for that, and he certainly didn't enjoy it), stop reading Right There and give is a one star no-no-no-no-this-isn't-right protest review aren't bothered by this?

I am really confused about how this was all portrayed. First Katherine (Kateryn) is translating all these texts from Latin to English and it's no big secret in this court and with Henry's knowledge and blessing. Why the big turn around back towards the Catholic ways and no English bible translations allowed? And then 180 again to the other side?
At home with a good book and the cat...
...is the only place I want to be

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MLE (Emily Cotton)
Bibliomaniac
Posts: 3566
Joined: August 2008
Interest in HF: started in childhood with the classics, which, IMHO are HF even if they were contemporary when written.
Favourite HF book: Prince of Foxes, by Samuel Shellabarger
Preferred HF: Currently prefer 1600 and earlier, but I'll read anything that keeps me turning the page.
Location: California Bay Area

Re: The Taming of the Queen

Post by MLE (Emily Cotton) » Mon August 31st, 2015, 5:29 pm

I don't know how PG presented the switching of Henry's mindset, but here's my personal take on why the back-and-forth:
From about mid-Anne Boleyn onward, after Henry had the jousting accident that left him in a coma, Henry's behavior was brain-damage erratic. That isn't to say he started doing things that were completely out of character--he BEGAN his reign by having his father's two most faithful servants executed (that's called judicial murder) in order to curry favor with almost everybody, as they were universally hated for doing what Henry VII ordered them to do. (grab money).

But the swings got more and more erratic--like promoting Thomas Cromwell, and then executing him, and then raging at Norfolk that he (Henry) had been manipulated to do away with his best counsellor. Or the bit with Katherine Parr where he signed her death warrant and then revoked in in a fit.

Henry had always been too full of himself, but by the time of his last two wives he was a brain-damaged diabetic with gangrene poisoning who was very afraid of death and was not at all sure which was the right bet to stay out of hell.

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Misfit
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Re: The Taming of the Queen

Post by Misfit » Mon August 31st, 2015, 5:45 pm

Thanks for the input on Henry. One thing about PG she does get the conversation going :)
At home with a good book and the cat...
...is the only place I want to be

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Susan
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Re: The Taming of the Queen

Post by Susan » Mon August 31st, 2015, 7:29 pm

Misfit wrote: I am really confused about how this was all portrayed. First Katherine (Kateryn) is translating all these texts from Latin to English and it's no big secret in this court and with Henry's knowledge and blessing. Why the big turn around back towards the Catholic ways and no English bible translations allowed? And then 180 again to the other side?
Henry VIII was basically a Catholic minus the Pope. His problem with the Catholic Church was not over doctrine, but over authority. Catherine's religious views were reform Protestant, in the sense of the definition of the word Protestant today. Her religious views incited a pro-Catholic/anti-Reform Protestant faction led by Stephen Gardiner, Bishop of Winchester and Thomas Wriothesley, Lord Chancellor, to bring a charge of heresy against her in 1546. Catherine found out about this and eloquently pleaded her case successfully to Henry.

MLE is absolutely correct about the jousting accident. Several years ago there were articles and a documentary about this. The gist was that Henry's obesity and other medical problems can be traced from the jousting accident in 1536, in which he suffered a leg wound that never healed. The jousting accident is believed to have caused Henry's mood swings, which may have had a dramatic effect on his personality and temperament.

I've never read anything that would indicate Henry was violent towards his last wife. By the time of his marriage to Catherine, Henry had become obese and needed to be moved around with the help of mechanical devices. He was covered with painful, pus-filled boils and probably suffered from gout. Catherine was twice widowed and had nursed her second elderly husband through illnesses and his death. Henry required a nurse rather than a wife, and Catherine fit the bill. Catherine proved to be a good nurse to Henry and a kind stepmother to his three children. She was influential in Henry's passing of the succession act that restored both his daughters, Mary and Elizabeth, to the line of succession to the throne. (Some of this is from an article by me, actually being published later today at the royalty website I helped to administer.)
~Susan~
~Unofficial Royalty~
Royal news updated daily, information and discussion about royalty past and present
http://www.unofficialroyalty.com/

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Susan
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Re: The Taming of the Queen

Post by Susan » Mon August 31st, 2015, 7:41 pm

Now I am mildly interested in reading the book. I put it on reserve in eLibraryNJ. There are 15 people ahead of me.

Articles about Henry's health and injuries:

500 years later: Henry VIII, leg ulcers and the course of history
The jousting accident that turned Henry VIII into a tyrant
WHY KING HENRY VIII BRAIN INJURY AND BEHAVIOUR CHANGE?
~Susan~
~Unofficial Royalty~
Royal news updated daily, information and discussion about royalty past and present
http://www.unofficialroyalty.com/

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