The Time of Singing

[EC2]

Originally Posted by Miss Moppet

I'm reading this for the Royal Mistress Challenge - just a few chapters in and I have some questions (there'll probably be more as I go along).

It's Henry II's Marshal, John FitzJohn, who escorts Ida to her first private meeting with the King.

1. Is this William Marshal's older brother?
2. The marshals were in charge of the court whores - would they also take some responsibility for the higher-born mistresses like Ida and Rosamund de Clifford?

Hi Miss Moppett!

Answers forthcoming.
1. Yes, John FitzJohn was indeed William Marshal's brother and was the royal marshal at this time. 'My John' (have to call him that!) FitzGilbert died in 1165.
2. Not really. If John's doing the job at this point it's more because the Marshal was also in charge of the ushers and arranging who got in to see the King. It was a policing/escort/bouncer sort of service. The Marshal's job from what I can glean where it involved the court concubines, was making sure the cat fighting between them didn't get out of hand and making them pay fines if and when it did! It was more about policing the activities of the working girls and keeping them in order. Rosamund and Ida were daughters of the nobility and their circumstances different to the run of the mill. I don't know how Henry got it on with Rosamund, but Ida was actually Henry's ward. He was supposed to be her guardian....

[annis]

Sorry, EC, got my John Fitzes mixed up- have deleted confusing post!

[Miss Moppet]

Originally Posted by EC2

The Marshal's job from what I can glean where it involved the court concubines, was making sure the cat fighting between them didn't get out of hand and making them pay fines if and when it did! It was more about policing the activities of the working girls and keeping them in order.

I'm curious - do the records say exactly what they got fined for?!

Rosamund and Ida were daughters of the nobility and their circumstances different to the run of the mill. I don't know how Henry got it on with Rosamund, but Ida was actually Henry's ward. He was supposed to be her guardian....

I'm feeling quite angry with Henry at the moment because he is supposed to be protecting Ida, and instead he's taking advantage of her. I'm getting the sense that Rosamund was the love of his life - do you think that's true or am I over-romanticising?

[EC2]

Originally Posted by Miss Moppet

I'm curious - do the records say exactly what they got fined for?!

I've only seen a passing reference and now I can't remember where, but it was for disorderly behaviour. More than that is within the realms of either the serious researcher or the historical novelist!

I'm feeling quite angry with Henry at the moment because he is supposed to be protecting Ida, and instead he's taking advantage of her. I'm getting the sense that Rosamund was the love of his life - do you think that's true or am I over-romanticising?

In conventional history, no one can say. I have done some Akashic work on the subject and if I can find the piece, I'll PM you what Alison got. I felt that Rosamund was indeed the love of Henry's life. Again, looking at conventional dates and history, Ida would have come along after Rosamund and perhaps been his first mistress following R's death.

[Miss Moppet]

Originally Posted by EC2

In conventional history, no one can say. I have done some Akashic work on the subject and if I can find the piece, I'll PM you what Alison got. I felt that Rosamund was indeed the love of Henry's life. Again, looking at conventional dates and history, Ida would have come along after Rosamund and perhaps been his first mistress following R's death.

Thanks!

I'm very much enjoying the book. Re the US title, I like it but I kind of wish everything didn't have to have King or Queen in it.

[nona]

man I really need to read this. Shame on me that I have not yet.

[kellie]

Hey guys,
Just have to say that I am on an EC high at the moment, I have nearly finished Time of Singing and am in love. *sigh*. All the good ones are dead or fictional lol. I have anticipated my future 'lovers' and so have bought every single historical novel in print (by EC) in the UK at the moment- whilst I'm here, might as well get them cheap, although it may be a bit painful taking them home lol. Definately worth it, though. Can't wait for Defy A King to come out, I have it marked in my calendar lol! Keep up the great work Elizabeth! Have been wondering though, Elizabeth, if you don't mind answering. How do you know which characters to write about? Do you pick them or do they pick you? And how do you research them? I love this period and your novels are so detailed, and just with normal everyday stuff, I'd love to know more!
Hope everyone has had a safe and happy Christmas and New Year, I should be around a lot more now!
Kellie

[EC2]

Hi Kellie - glad you enjoy the novels. It's the readers that keep me in a job!
How do I choose who to write about:
1. My passion is the Middle Ages - let's say 1066 - 1250, so the characters will be generally within those parameters.
2. Usually I'll read about a historical figure - sometimes while researching something else, and the person will jump out at me as having an interesting story to tell, or a story that while known, perhaps has different angles that haven't been explored.
3. These days I get my Akashic consultant Alison to take a look at my prospective historical characters to see if I am going to be comfortable writing about them. A couple of years ago John Marshal, William's father was on my shortlist and I was mulling along, minding my own business when he declared very loudly that he was next. I was on my way to the grocery shop at the time with the dh driving. We stopped at some traffic lights and loud and clear John Marshal 'silently' shouted in my ear that he was next up. I was immensely curious about the kind of man who would say he did not care about his son and had the anvils and hammers to get better. So I started researching and came across all sorts of things that I didn't expect to find.
With Roger Bigod, I found myself very curious about him after writing my Marshal books. His eldest son married William's firstborn daughter, and Roger lived through a similar time to William, but in a different sort of way - getting on with it quietly in the background, mostly in England, but still, eventually, a man of great power. Ida fascinated me because I wanted to know about the mother of William Longespee. I was also interested to know more about royal mistresses in my period. Were they all pushy sirens on the make, or were they sometimes young girls whom an unscrupulous monarch would take advantage of because he had the power and because he could?
Bottom line - it's mostly huge natural curiosity sparked by things I read while I'm writing other material, and I take it from there.

[kellie]

Thanks for replying! That is so interesting! I really enjoy the crossed storylines- seeing things from Roger's POV that involve Will-- and then reading Will's version and seeing the outcomes, you have done a really good job. I can't wait for your new book! Do any of your other stories involve these characters, or minor characters? I like finding out the backstories behind characters that I may not neccessarily register as being important in other books. Thanks so much for the info, and keep writing!!! You keep me sane lol!

[Miss Moppet]

Originally Posted by EC2

I was also interested to know more about royal mistresses in my period. Were they all pushy sirens on the make, or were they sometimes young girls whom an unscrupulous monarch would take advantage of because he had the power and because he could?

This is what I'm wondering about. The lives of royal mistresses seem to be quite shadowy in this period - Ida being a perfect example with her story only recently having come to light. Powerful official mistresses who gather huge amounts of cash and land don't seem to appear until the early modern period - Alice Perrers being the earliest example. Ida gets presents and trinkets from Henry and from others who want her goodwill, but that is offset by the fact that she is Henry's ward, so presumably he's still enjoying revenues from her inheritance.

Do you think it's true to say that the pushy-siren type didn't come along till later centuries? Or is that too much of a generalisation?