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diamondlil
08-27-2008, 12:41 PM
I have never read any Elizabeth Chadwick novels before even though I have had her on my TBR list for quite some time. When I saw this book sitting on the new releases shelf at the library I thought here is my opportunity! So it then moved to my shelf for the best part of a two and a half months until suddenly I realised that I was not going to be able to extend any further, so I was going to have to either take it back or just get on with it and read it. I chose the latter, and to be honest I am wondering why on earth I didn't read it when I first got it because it was a very enjoyable read!

The book follows William Marshal from the time he is 5 years old through to around 48 years of age (there will be another book to cover from then until his death that the author is currently working on). This is a fictionalised version of his life, taking the events that we do know from history, and then weaving and fleshing out the story into very readable, very enjoyable look at life in the times of the Plantagenet period of English history.

William was the fourth born son of John Marshal (Marshal to King Stephen), and nephew to the Earl of Salisbury. When he was approximately 5 years old William was handed off as to King Stephen as a hostage against his father's promise (not an uncommon event at that time). When William's father did not keep his word, King Stephen had every right to hang William, but he did not. What King Stephen did do was give William what would appear to be his life mantra - A King Values Loyalty.

When he was around 20 years of age William was knighted and began to participate in the tourneys that were part of the life in Northern France. After suffering a setback in his first major tourney, William quickly learns how to fight and win, and build his store of wealth. The author has done a great job at portraying the colour, and the pageant associated with the tourneys, but it was not an easy life, especially for a young man who was born with such limited prospects, and who is living in his uncle's house by his good grace alone. As his success continues and reputation grows, William becomes probably the most successful knight on the tourney circuit. In the epilogue, Chadwick compares the adulation that William Marshal would have received due to his success at the tourneys to that accorded to modern footballers now:

Rather like the sporting heroes of today, the great tourney champions were much in demand and sponsors would pay vast sums of money to have them on their 'team'. The world of high earnings, transfer fees, hero worship and celebrity that, for example, we associate with modern-day football was a concept already embraced by the followers of the tourney circuit in the late twelfth-and early thirteenth century Europe. William Marshal was the David Beckham of his day!


Whilst out riding with the Queen one day, William saves her life when they are attacked by a group of rebels. He is taken captive and is not released until someone pays the price of his release. Once he is released, William is appointed as tutor to the sons of Queen Eleanor, thus beginning a life long service to the Plantagenet family.

His service was to Prince Henry, who was eventually crowned the Young King concurrently with his father King Henry II. This was one of several things that I learnt whilst reading this book. I had no idea that it was the French tradition to crown the heir to the throne, whilst the current King was still alive. Another thing I learned was that tourneys were not at that time held in England because King Henry didn't like them.

If you know anything about the Plantagenet family, you will know that they were practicallly the model of the ultimate dysfunctional family (throughout the events of this book Queen Eleanor is being held as her husbands captive!) and it is not long before Prince Henry was fighting his father, and eventually openly rebelling against him, making alliances with his father's enemies. Whilst William did his best to contain his charge without upsetting him too much, William's enemies saw ideal opportunities to undermine his position and his authority. For with success in the Royal courts comes ambitious jealousy and dangerous gossip to which William falls prey when he is accused of having an affair with the Young Queen Marguerite, Henry's bride and sister of the French king. William is banished from court and begins a period of wandering, mainly making pilgrimages to atone for the sins of the desecration of a chapel that occurred under the order of Henry earlier.

Eventually recalled to court, William once again acts as right hand man to the Young King, knowing that it could well count against him with the King because of the open rebellion between the two Kings, but then the young king Henry is taken ill and dies. William takes time out and journeys to Jerusalem to fulfill the dying wish of his master. There is little known of this time in his life, and this is one area in which Chadwick chooses not to elaborate, keeping this mystery for us as we read through her book. When William returns to court, Henry recognises the loyalty that William displayed to his son and appoints him to his court, again rising to a position of authority and influence. And then it seemed that the cycle began again, this time with the rebellion between King Henry and his now heir Richard (known to us these days as Richard the Lionheart), and then between King Richard and his brother Prince John who is attempting to undermind Richard through underhanded scheming and dealing as Richard is held hostage in Austria and Prince John attempts to gain the throne any way he could.

Rewarded with various lands and gifts, one of the greatest gifts that William was given was the marriage to Isabel de Clare, bringing both what certainly appeared to be a happy marriage, but also children, lands, and wealth. In order to win this great prize though, William had still had to figure out whether to accept what he was given (for he was originally given another young ward with a view to marriage) or asking for more! He was ably assisted in this regard by Queen Eleanor who was a great champion for his cause.

Not only did William have to tread carefully as he made his way through the Plantagenet court, he also had to deal with his own family, finding himself more often than not on the opposite side of a quarrel to his own brother, and trying to ensure that his family was advanced as much as possible.

There is a great deal to cover to give animation to the facts that are known of the life of this man, and so the author moves through from event to event. There are times when the time difference between two chapters can be several years. Whilst at times I found these jumps a bit distracting and had to go back and check the dates so that I had it straight in my mind, this is probably the only criticism I would give. The William Marshal we meet is highly successful despite the attempts of his enemies to cause his downfall - a man with a very strong sense of integrity, honour and loyalty, who often has to contemplate whether these values will be enough to help in to survive in the very fickle world of court affairs.

Overall this was a very enjoyable read, spending time in the courts of Plantagenet England, one of my favourite eras in English history. I look forward to the second book to be released and will read it as soon as I get hold of it this time, and will be reading more from her!

Rating 4/5

Kailana
08-27-2008, 03:54 PM
I still can't believe I still haven't read Elizabeth Chadwick before. I don't even have a book by her in my TBR pile! She is not an author I can just go to the store and buy and I just haven't ordered her online yet! Kind of hard to believe, really.

Ash
09-07-2008, 09:49 PM
I just finished this one and loved it! I am eagerly awaiting the next two in that series. A bit frustrating tho, I am ready to read the next one right now, but I have to wait since the only place I could find them was on Amazon CA. Ah well, good things come to those who wait, they say.

> Whilst at times I found these jumps a bit distracting and had to go back and check the dates so that I had it straight in my mind

I had to do the same. It would have helped to have a timeline, or a family tree, and a map. Those three things, as well as a good author's note which this book had, helps me so much as a reader, and I wish every author would include those (hint hint :) )

I was wondering if she was going to cover his year in Jerusalem and was pleasantly surprised that she didn't. I think it would have been too much within that one book.

Misfit
09-07-2008, 11:00 PM
Ash, she's among the best in this genre. I don't know why something this good isn't readily available in the US. Check out abebooks, they do have US sellers bringing her books in from the UK. You'll pay shipping charges but perhaps better than the exchange rate, and you might find some of her older books there -- and those are getting hard to find.

Ash
09-07-2008, 11:46 PM
Ash, she's among the best in this genre. I don't know why something this good isn't readily available in the US. Check out abebooks, they do have US sellers bringing her books in from the UK. You'll pay shipping charges but perhaps better than the exchange rate, and you might find some of her older books there -- and those are getting hard to find.

I checked out ABE via Bookfinder, all copies of her books start at $15. So really the Amazon CA order is fine; the total for 3 books came to $18US including shipping. Its just that I know its going to take longer than usual!

Oh btw, in another thread we were talking about sex in novels. It worked out great here!

Misfit
09-08-2008, 12:43 AM
Glad you've got more coming. You won't be sorry.

Tanzanite
09-08-2008, 12:46 AM
I love The Greatest Knight - and William Marshal as a result! He's the ultimate "knight in shining armour". It is one of my all time favorites (up there with Penman's Here Be Dragons).

diamondlil
09-08-2008, 09:25 AM
Ash, she's among the best in this genre. I don't know why something this good isn't readily available in the US. Check out abebooks, they do have US sellers bringing her books in from the UK. You'll pay shipping charges but perhaps better than the exchange rate, and you might find some of her older books there -- and those are getting hard to find.

My favourite UK online bookstore is Book Depository (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/WEBSITE/WWW/WEBPAGES/viewarticle.php?type=aboutus&id=1). No shipping which brings the cost of buying books from overseas right down.

Misfit
09-08-2008, 11:53 AM
My favourite UK online bookstore is Book Depository (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/WEBSITE/WWW/WEBPAGES/viewarticle.php?type=aboutus&id=1). No shipping which brings the cost of buying books from overseas right down.

I haven't tried them yet but everyone who has raves on the service. I've heard the exchange rate is bit unfavorable to us in the states right now as opposed to buying through Canada and paying a small shipping charge.
I could be wrong though :o

Ash
09-08-2008, 01:29 PM
Thanks lil - tho I think for the time being I'm going to stick with CA - it actually has the dollar higher than the CA$! (by a few pennies, but still)

One thing that did bother me in this book, was Marshalls perfection. It wasn't enough to make me dislike the book, but enough that as I finished the book, I thought about more. He obviously had internal turmoil, which helped develop his character, and I liked his love/hate relationship with his older brother. But there were times I wanted him to really screw up (yes he did at the raid on the church, by being passive). He obviously went to Jerusalem to pay for his sins, and that was very believable. But esp when he was married to Isabel, it started not to ring true (didn't help that I thought she seemed too perfect as well). That being said, the characterizations in this book were right on, and I like the story of Marshall enough to check out the other two books. I suspect that he might not be such a knight in shining armour on a white horse a little later?

EC2
09-08-2008, 06:36 PM
Thanks lil - tho I think for the time being I'm going to stick with CA - it actually has the dollar higher than the CA$! (by a few pennies, but still)

One thing that did bother me in this book, was Marshalls perfection. It wasn't enough to make me dislike the book, but enough that as I finished the book, I thought about more. He obviously had internal turmoil, which helped develop his character, and I liked his love/hate relationship with his older brother. But there were times I wanted him to really screw up (yes he did at the raid on the church, by being passive). He obviously went to Jerusalem to pay for his sins, and that was very believable. But esp when he was married to Isabel, it started not to ring true (didn't help that I thought she seemed too perfect as well). That being said, the characterizations in this book were right on, and I like the story of Marshall enough to check out the other two books. I suspect that he might not be such a knight in shining armour on a white horse a little later?

Hi Ash,
All I can say is I wrote as I found from my research. Granted the Histoire de Guillaume le Mareschal is somewhat biased as a source being as it was commissioned by his son, but I did factor in other sources too where available and tried to stay true to the people they showed me. Interestingly, I had a review from a reader who said that I had portrayed the Marshal as way not perfect enough and I had made him too tarnished and sordid!
I think you will find later on that William does have some grey areas develop on his white horse. I guess if I had written the chevauchee expeditions of the war of 1173, a different side would have been more openly exposed but it was a matter of fitting it into a novel where I had publisher word constraints. Given the room I would have explored that aspect. I've been very slowly researching his pilgrimage and one day may write about it, but 'slowly' is the operative word! I think it fascinating that he bought his own burial shrouds while he was there...
I've just put a short article on my blog about his daughter, Mahelt.
http://livingthehistoryelizabethchadwick.blogspot.com/2008/09/clothing-bones-finding-mahelt-marshal.html

Telynor
09-08-2008, 09:17 PM
Given everything that I've read about William Marshal, he was one of the genuine heroes of the 12th century. His honour was never in question, that's something that I noticed about him, and he behaved quite well for a man of his times. Even his enemies admired him for his conduct, and when it came towards the end of his life, he was one that everyone seemed to agree on to be regent for Henry III, and lead the loyalists against Louis' invasion of England. Quite an accomplishment.

EC: Just read the article about Mahelt -- wow. I had read some about her before, but as to her later life, I had no idea.

EC2
09-08-2008, 09:24 PM
Given everything that I've read about William Marshal, he was one of the genuine heroes of the 12th century. His honour was never in question, that's something that I noticed about him, and he behaved quite well for a man of his times. Even his enemies admired him for his conduct, and when it came towards the end of his life, he was one that everyone seemed to agree on to be regent for Henry III, and lead the loyalists against Louis' invasion of England. Quite an accomplishment.

When he gave his word, he gave it and never went back. And yes, he was the only one that everyone would agree to unite behind. His nearest rival, who wanted the position was the Earl of Chester, but there were barons in the loyalist camp who would have refused point blank to fight under his banner.
The grey areas involved some very fast dancing near the line (if not with a toe over it) in order to hold onto his Norman lands, and a few rather dubious glad-hands deals when he was regent, but he took far less advantage than he might have done all things considered.

Ash
09-09-2008, 12:37 AM
EC, thanks for that. What you are saying makes sense, esp if you are going with the primary sources of the time and not making up your own characters. I will be very interested in reading the other two

And I do undrestand about not being able to include everything. The book was just long enough for me, and any more would have made it much more of a muddle I think. You seemed to have judged well!

Libby
01-14-2009, 09:08 PM
I read this book just before Christmas. To my disgrace I didn't know anything about William Marshal before and I found him a very compelling and interesting man.

He founded the priory at Cartmel and it was a visit there to take part in the morning service when I was eleven years old that helped to fuel my passion for history. So I enjoyed learning more about William Marshal and I'm now tempted to read more about him (a non-fiction biography) to see how well EC captured the essence of him in the novel. Could he really have been that perfect?

One thing that intrigued me about him was that he couldn't read or write and yet he seemed very intelligent. I wondered if he was dyslexic - though such a notion wouldn't be given a diagnosis for another 700 years or so. But he must have had to trust his scribes implicitly and I wondered if his wife Isabel could read. Was that one of the reasons he valued her so much perhaps?

In the book I liked the way he asked for her opinion, but she seemed very well informed and discerning, perhaps a bit too knowledgeable given her circumstances, but I understand why it was done. There always has to be some compromise between truth and storyline and characterisation. Though the truth can provide the most amusing parts. I'm thinking in particular of the incident when William got his helmet jammed on his head and whilst the blacksmith was trying to bash it off someone was waiting to present him with his prize of a huge pike. You'd be hard pushed to make something like that up!

EC2
01-14-2009, 09:37 PM
I read this book just before Christmas. To my disgrace I didn't know anything about William Marshal before and I found him a very compelling and interesting man.

Libby, he definitely was - you don't get many like The Marshal to the pound.

He founded the priory at Cartmel and it was a visit there to take part in the morning service when I was eleven years old that helped to fuel my passion for history. So I enjoyed learning more about William Marshal and I'm now tempted to read more about him (a non-fiction biography) to see how well EC captured the essence of him in the novel. Could he really have been that perfect?

I don't think I made him that perfect and I adhered to the sources. He was a rarity I think, and one fantastic individual. The best non fiction biographies are by David Crouch and Sidney Painter. Ignore the Duby one - it's bad. Of the two bios, Crouch errs on the side of being slightly snarky about The Marshal (trying to debunk some of the SCA-like chivalry paraphernalia that has attached) and Painter sees more of the shining knight. Both biographies are by erudite and insightful men. If you want to see William in his own words, then you will need the Anglo Norman Text Society's Histoire de Guillaume le Mareschal volumes 1 and 2. This is primary source and based on eye-witness reports.

One thing that intrigued me about him was that he couldn't read or write and yet he seemed very intelligent. I wondered if he was dyslexic -


Bang on the money. That's what I think. My brother in law is highly dyslexic but fiercely intelligent and with a capacity for estimation and logistics that would have made him fantastic in the role of Marshal back in the day (although he can't fight for toffee :D). I strongly suspect that William's dad could read and write - as one of Henry I's men with responsibilities at the exchequer. I would think at least one of William's brother's could - Henry, who became bishop of Exeter.

though such a notion wouldn't be given a diagnosis for another 700 years or so. But he must have had to trust his scribes implicitly and I wondered if his wife Isabel could read. Was that one of the reasons he valued her so much perhaps?

In the book I liked the way he asked for her opinion, but she seemed very well informed and discerning, perhaps a bit too knowledgeable given her circumstances, but I understand why it was done.

Professor Crouch seems to think that Isabelle was more than a mere cipher. She made her voice known. She was always close to William. Where he went, she was mostly not too far away. I was recently speaking to a lady who has written a thesis on Isabelle and she told me that what she had discovered about her in the course of her researches gelled with everything she had read in The Greatest Knight and The Scarlet Lion - which was nice to know!

There always has to be some compromise between truth and storyline and characterisation. Though the truth can provide the most amusing parts. I'm thinking in particular of the incident when William got his helmet jammed on his head and whilst the blacksmith was trying to bash it off someone was waiting to present him with his prize of a huge pike. You'd be hard pushed to make something like that up!

Indeed. That scene can be read in its full glory in the Histoire, along with all sorts of other fascinating snippets that I didn't have room to include.
Glad you enjoyed it anyway. I have to say I am a sad person who would talk about Marshals until the cows came home!

Madeleine
01-15-2009, 11:17 AM
I must admit I also thought William was just a bit too good to be true in The Greatest Knight (haven't read The Scarlet Lion yet) although I enjoyed it and admire him greatly. I went to Cartmel years ago but only found out about the Marshal connection last year from EC's website, wish I'd known about it at the time as I'd have gone to the Priory properly (we didn't want to climb the hill and went to a pub for lunch instead :) ), in fact I'd never heard of the Marshals until I discovered your books EC! Also as regards dyslexia, in A Place Beyond Courage (about William's dad John) it does say that John's father made sure that he (John) could read and write, and he does write quite a few letters! But I did wonder if William was dyslexic, as he was obviously very bright.

Madeleine
05-21-2009, 06:59 PM
EC, I've just been reading your blog about William Marshal, and I sat there sniffing when I got to the end - which is probably why I haven't read The Scarlet Lion yet! I didn't know that Templars couldn't be embraced by a woman, that must have been torment for both William and Isabelle, they must both have been so strong.

Off to get some more Kleenex now!

EC2
05-21-2009, 07:23 PM
EC, I've just been reading your blog about William Marshal, and I sat there sniffing when I got to the end - which is probably why I haven't read The Scarlet Lion yet! I didn't know that Templars couldn't be embraced by a woman, that must have been torment for both William and Isabelle, they must both have been so strong.

Off to get some more Kleenex now!

Sorry! :D
I've only just put that piece up at my site - I have others to write on Roger Bigod, John Marshal, and their womenfolk. It's ongoing, but slow due to other irons in the fire. Anyway, my agent e-mailed me to say that she'd read the piece and sat blubbing in her office - his story gets her that way even though she knows it.
True about the Templars - it's there in the Histoire, the whole scene where he tells her to kiss him one last time. 'Bel' amie, or me beseriez, car ja mes nul jor nel ferez.'
The sadness only gets to me when I look at a beautiful English May evening such as now, and think that once William Marshal would have smelled the elderflower in bloom and seen all this beautiful green, and sat before the fire with his cup in his hand and Isabelle at his side. And now no more.
William does have a strong guest appearance in The Time of Singing and also in my current WIP - and in both of those, he gets out alive!
I tried to visit him in London last week for the anniversary of his burial at the Temple Church, but said church was closed (again!) as they were preparing for a recital of Handel's Messiah. I reckon wherever he is, he'd like that

Rowan
09-13-2011, 04:11 PM
Hiya EC!! Just read this book of yours and I have to say it's fantastic! I loved every page. I just wish I'd read it in a different format. :rolleyes:

EC2
09-13-2011, 04:39 PM
Thanks Rowan :) What format did you read it in?

Rowan
09-13-2011, 07:21 PM
I found it through my Kobo app on the iPad. I don't like Kobo. Kindle is much better. But some day I'll live in a library and have a hardcopy so it will be a moot point by then. :p

Ely
12-06-2011, 07:52 PM
My copy arrived today, but just wondering whether I really should start reading tonight when my alarm is set for 0600hrs?