If you could attend any historical event...

[Holly Tucker]

Which one would it be? (Saw this over at Good Reads, it's a great question!)

I'd want to attend the fateful party that Nicolas Fouquet hosted for Louis XIV. It landed the Minister of Finance in jail for the rest of his life. That will teach you not to try to outdo the king!

Holly
http://www.wondersandmarvels.com

[donroc]

I have two similar wishes:

Any dinner attended by Oscar Wilde to enjoy the wit and repartee.
Any dinner hosted by Talleyrand to enjoy the wit and repartee and the gems created by his chef.

[michellemoran]

Oh, definitely the signing of the Declaration of Independence. All of those brilliant minds together...

As a close second, though, I would love to have been at any private ball held during the late 18th century/early nineteenth century. I would want to see the furnishings, the dresses, the hairstyles... all of it!

[princess garnet]

I'd want to attend the fateful party that Nicolas Fouquet hosted for Louis XIV. It landed the Minister of Finance in jail for the rest of his life. That will teach you not to try to outdo the king!

I visited Veux-le-Compte on a weekend day exursion while on summer study aboard 4 years ago. Here's a bio about M. Fouqet:
www.vaux-le-vicomte.com/en/histoire-chateau-Nicolas-Fouquet.php

[SonjaMarie]

Part of me would like to say the Execution of Lady Jane Grey, but I'm not sure if I could handle that, the same goes for the sinking of the Titanic.

Maybe Jane being offered the crown.

SM

[Perdita]

The moment the Earl of Essex bursts into Elizabeth I's bedroom and catches her without her wig or makeup on. Big mistake!

[Leyland]

That's a tough one! One of the first that comes to mind would be to watch the whole of Charles II's coronation procession from the Tower of London to Westminster Abbey on April 23, 1661. With his restoration came the return of music and perfomances and laughing!

[donroc]

Were I in my youth, it would be a delight to be at a grand ball attended by the lovely daughters of Nicholas and Alexandra, but only as one of a rank worthy of dancing with them of course.

[Volgadon]

That's a tough one! One of the first that comes to mind would be to watch the whole of Charles II's coronation procession from the Tower of London to Westminster Abbey on April 23, 1661. With his restoration came the return of music and perfomances and laughing!

Which is a bit of a myth, but that's for a different thread.

[annis]

The dramatic first meeting of Cleopatra and julius Caesar- how does one emerge from a roll of carpet looking as gloriously seductive as depicted in Jean-Léon Gérôme's image?

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Bios/CleopatraBeforeCaesar.html

I can't help thinking that you'd emerge hot, bothered, dishevelled and rather less than glamorous!

[Margaret]

This is such a cool thread. At the moment, I'm thinking the acclamation of Constantine by his legions in Eboracum (now York, England) as Emperor of the Western Roman Empire. About a decade ago, when it was less expensive to travel in Europe, I was wandering through the Undercroft at York Minster and found myself at the exact spot where this probably happened.

[Ash]

I can think of many events that I don't want to attend, but wish I was a fly on the wall!

[Christine Blevins]

Having just finished up writing a novel set at in 1776 New York City, I am very taken with the whole notion of Revolution.

I would love to be in New York with a copy of Common Sense in my pocket the day George Washington has the Declaration read aloud on the Commons, and then join in the crowd marching down to the Bowling Green and witness the gilded statue of King George being toppled - thrilling times.

[Alaric]

I'd love to have been at Austerlitz or Waterloo. Oh, and the night Catherine the Great seized the crown from her husband, Peter III.

[eclecticreader10]

I would have liked to be at the Continental Congress the day they decided on the electorial college. I want to know: what were they thinking?

[nona]

ok I narrowed it done to a two..

The Day Anne Boleyn was beheaded

The fall of Rome

[Margaret]

I had so much fun thinking about this question that I wrote a longer answer and posted it on the blog at www.HistoricalNovels.info (http://www.historicalnovels.info/historical-novels-blog.html).

[Ash]

I wouldn't want to be around death and destruction. I'd love to be in places where a community is celebrating a great event - end of WWII in Times Square for example. . I'd love to stand on the shore the colonies when the discoverers first land and the natives make first contact (and if I could, I'd warn them about a thing or two). I'd like to be with Gutenburg when he printed his first book, with Beethoven when he worked on Ode to Joy or Shakespeare acting in one of his plays at the Globe. I'd love to be with Colin Fletcher on his discovery of the Grand Canyon, with the archaelogist who discovered the the Terracota Warriors in China; oh, so many possibilities.

[eclecticreader10]

<<discovered I was standing just beneath the spot where Constantine had most likely stood at that pivotal moment in history>>

How moving to have stood on that spot! In a smaller event but still significant, I once went to Dallas, TX and stood at Daley Plaza and thought about the the Kennedy assassination. It really moved me; it gave me goosebumps. I believe that places have elements (for lack of a better word) of events that took place there.

[diamondlil]

The place that gave me the most goosebumps when I visited it was the Dachau concentraton camp near Munich.

Another place with a similar feel is Port Arthur in Tasmania. It was spooky because of both how the prisoners were treated their back during colonisation but also because there was a massacre there 20 odd years ago and there are memorials and things there.

[annis]

What an amazing experience to know you are standing on the very spot where a momentous event took place, Margaret.

i haven't travelled, and I live in New Zealand, a country very new in terms of European history, though with many generations of native Maori history.
When I was growing up, though, I lived in a city called Tauranga where a major battle of the nineteenth century New Zealand Wars took place, known as the Battle of Gate Pa. ( In the Maori language a pa is a settlement.)

The whole area was a park and we used to run around the old trenches and visit the pioneer cemetery (a depressing number of children's and soldiers' graves) The Maori were clever and fierce warriors and were in fact the first to use trench warfare, an idea later adopted by Europeans on the Western Front of WWI.
It's a strange feeling to be playing around in a place where people have fought and died.

This particular battle was famous for a couple of reasons. A relatively small number of Maori (about 200) defeated nearly 2000 supposedly superior and more sophisticated British forces, and the Maori of Gate Pa were Christians who showed great respect and mercy to their opponents.

If you scroll down to the bottom of this article about the battle you will see the rules set out by the Maori chief for the conduct expected of his people during the fighting - these rules were strictly adhered to. (Pakeha is the Maori word for Europeans)
http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-MaiStor-t1-body-d2.html

[Christine Blevins]

Visiting a battlefield is always a very moving experience. One that stands out for me as an American is Gettysburg - especially the field where Pickett made his charge - the courage it took to march that distance under artillery fire - amazing.

[SonjaMarie]

I might be getting a book on Battle Field Ghosts from BF soon, so that will be interesting to read.

SM

[EC2]

The tournament of Lagny sur Marne where William Marshal was in action. I'd love to have a motion camera on his horse and find out what it was really like. There are some descriptions of technique in the primary sources that I have a hard time getting my head around.

Other than that - well when Jesus was around and the moment at the tomb, to find out what really happened for myself.

[alice]

Probably Shakesperean London, hanging around the theatre with Will and his players. There are probably loads of other times I'd like, but I love Shakespeare so much, I would love to meet him and be caught up with all that world.

I also love anything to do with R111, so would like to be around to see what really happened to the Princes in the Tower. I've been to Bosworth Battlefield, where he died, and it was just that, a field. It did have a visitors centre though, which showed the scene of his death on a loop, with Olivier playing him from Shakey's R111. That was a while back, so it may be a bit more commercialised now, I know some of our students went recently, and I remember thinking they won't like it, they'll just see a field, and it will mean nothing to them.

[nona]

I would like to know what really happened to the Neanderthals, was it climate changes or humans. oh and watch the Egyptians build one of their Pyramids of stone. I think it would be neat to see the Vikings at the hieght of the reign, walk through a village and aboard one of their fighting vessels. The list could really go on.

[Ash]

[<<discovered I was standing just beneath the spot where Constantine had most likely stood at that pivotal moment in history

Oh, I've had some of those 'oh my gawd' moments from traveling.

We went to Rome with a friend who'd never traveled before, so everything was new and exciting. But the most amazing thing for her was when she realized she was on the very steps where Ceasar was killed. Talk about goosebumps for her. But for me it was going down under one of the churches to find myself standing in a Temple of Mithras.

In Wales, visiting the tomb of Llywellyn the Great, and seeing one of his castles was amazing after I had read Penman's trilogy. In both places, I felt like I was there, like there was a connection. I also went to Swallow Falls, which wasn't as huge as it miustve been in those times, so I was underwhelmed, but still amazed that this was a place he frequented so often.

Another was in Jamestown colony. Looking out over the water, I could almost see the ships of the colonists coming. The whole site had a very eery feeling to me, like I had been there before.

Finally, the long hike up to the top of Masada in Israel as a teen. A group of us went up there to sleep amongst the ruins, and watch the sunrise. I don't think any of us went to sleep, and what started out as a roudy slumber party turned into a rather somber consideration of the history and how we were affected by it. Another place where I definitely felt I had been there before.

[EC2]

[I][
Finally, the long hike up to the top of Masada in Israel as a teen. A group of us went up there to sleep amongst the ruins, and watch the sunrise. I don't think any of us went to sleep, and what started out as a roudy slumber party turned into a rather somber consideration of the history and how we were affected by it. Another place where I definitely felt I had been there before.

Yes, I found Montsegur in the Pyrennean foothills a bit like that. I got quite irritated with a pair of tourists who weren't into the atmosphere and who were discussing whether to have the ham or cheese sandwiches in their lunchpack first!
This year I was invited to Hamstead Marshall by the lady who actually lives on top of where John Marshal and William Marshal would have called home (or one of them). Both father and son would have known it as children though, and it was wonderful to walk the same ground as people I've come to know and love in the historical record. It's not open to the public, it's someone's private home and I feel very privileged to have been asked to visit and then to stay to dinner.

[nona]

I hope my husband and I can travel when the girls are older, what I wouldn't give to go to Wales, Ireland and England. I keep telling myself one day we will.

[donroc]

Neantherthals is a great one.

Sticking with the N's, I might drop in on Nostradamus to see how he did it, as charlatan or seer.

[Ash]

I got quite irritated with a pair of tourists who weren't into the atmosphere and who were discussing whether to have the ham or cheese sandwiches in their lunchpack first!

Oh I have to be very careful in times like this - I want everyone in the place where I am dammit! The worst was in Ireland, in a lovely quiet church. I turn to find gigglying 20 somethings actually laying down in open empty tombs! I was just shocked that they would defile something that others would think of as sacred.

[EC2]

Oh I have to be very careful in times like this - I want everyone in the place where I am dammit! The worst was in Ireland, in a lovely quiet church. I turn to find gigglying 20 somethings actually laying down in open empty tombs! I was just shocked that they would defile something that others would think of as sacred.

Absolutely - and what they were doing is totally lacking in respect.
Going to Hastings seemed a bit surreal. There were children playing where one a very decisive and bloody battle had been fought, and people wandering around licking ice creams and looking at the story boards on the field in a desultory way. Now, perhaps that is at it should be and shows how futile wars actually are, but I found myself trying to imagine Harold and William both returning together and standing watching these people a thousand years on enjoying their day out. What would they think? Was it worth it? It's a game I often play, imagining a historical character into the present and wondering what they'd think!

[Ash]

Hee, I thought the same thing in Hastings. Didn't quite have that 'you are there' feel to it. Another place I felt that was Warwick Castle. You couldn't explore, like we are used to, but was filled with enactors playing up with the tourists to the point where I felt like I was in Disneyland, not in a place where history was made.

[EC2]

Hee, I thought the same thing in Hastings. Didn't quite have that 'you are there' feel to it. Another place I felt that was Warwick Castle. You couldn't explore, like we are used to, but was filled with enactors playing up with the tourists to the point where I felt like I was in Disneyland, not in a place where history was made.

Oh yes, Warwick is sooo like that and not at all good value for money either. Disneyland as you say. My son and his new wife were there not so long ago and commented that wherever you went it somehow always led you back to the giftshop. :rolleyes: Kenilworth just round the corner is lovely though and has that atmosphere lacking at Warwick. Did you go there?

[Ash]

Yes, actually. When we left (through the gift store of course) and the gentleman at the gate asked us how we liked our visit, we told him (nicely ), he suggested Kenilworth. He was right, it was just what we were looking for and had a delightful day.

[Margaret]

But the most amazing thing for her was when she realized she was on the very steps where Ceasar was killed. Talk about goosebumps for her. But for me it was going down under one of the churches to find myself standing in a Temple of Mithras.

Those would both be major goosebump moments for me!

[Leyland]

I would also like to have been at Appomattox Court House, VA in Wilmer McLean's house on April 9, 1865 when General Lee surrendered the Confederate Army to General Grant. The mix of emotion in that room must have been overwhelmingly palpable. I can at least plan a visit to the Smithsonian's National Museum of American History someday to view a replica of the room and send my imagination out to do the rest.

[lindymc]

Leyland, I agree that to have been a witness at Lee's surrender would have been an emotional moment. Have you see how Greg Burns handled it in his Civil War documentary? To have witnessed the exchange between the Confederate General Gordon, and the remarkable chivalry of Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain would have been pretty awesome also.

I am such a fan of William Marshall that it seems sacrilegious to even offer a comparison, but if one had to name an American who might come close, it would be Chamberlain.

[Margaret]

Does anyone know of a novel about Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain? His story is so incredible. It was one of the most memorable threads in Ken Burns' The Civil War.

[annis]

Can't resist a challenge, Margaret, so here are a couple for you:

"Courage on Little Round Top" by Thomas M.Eishen
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1881554384/sr=8-1/qid=1155210504/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-5417514-1507814?ie=UTF8

"Silver Eagles" by Nick Korolev
http://www.amazon.com/Silver-Eagles-Nick-Korolev/dp/1592868363/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1224466715&sr=8-1

[Ash]

Visiting historical sights certainly helps with visualizing scenes in a book. There is a moment in Devil's Brood where Eleanor is going to Winchester to the treasury. That was so easy to visualize - we went there, I think it was called the Pyx, as well as the monastery. It was one of the first cathedrals we visited on our first trip, so it made quite an impression. I loved that I could actually see the place where Eleanor was going to.

[Ludmilla]

Does anyone know of a novel about Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain? His story is so incredible. It was one of the most memorable threads in Ken Burns' The Civil War.

I think there has been non-fiction written about Chamberlain, but Burns was greatly influenced by Michael Shaara's historical novel, The Killer Angels, which is concentrated on the Battle of Gettysburg. Chamberlain plays a prominent role, and Shaara's son wrote the bookends to complete the trilogy about the civil war. Chamberlain is one of the PoV characters in all of these. The other two books are Gods and Generals (covers roughly 1858-63) and Last Full Measure (post Gettysburg through Lee's surrender, with a post-script of Chamberlain visiting Gettysburg as an old man). I read all three recently and loved them.

The afterword of Killer Angels describes what happened to the survivors of Gettysburg. Included in that is an anecdote about Longstreet who attends a reunion -- uninvited-- of the Army of Northern Virginia years after the war. By this time he is regarded as a turncoat for his support of Grant's policies (Grant was a close friend of his before the war) and for criticizing Lee's tactics at Gettysburg, which Longstreet regarded as the beginning of the end of the war. Shaara gives a wonderful description of Longstreet walkly proudly across that room to be hugged by Jefferson Davis. I think that would be an emotional scene to witness.

[Leyland]

I've visited the Confederate POW camp only once at Andersonville National Historic Site in Georgia, and most definitely felt the residual misery, suffering, despair and death that remains in the atmosphere as we walked around. To try to thoroughly envision a tent city full of starving and sick soldiers was almost too much.

Robert E Lee was a wise and courageous man when ending the tragedy for both sides. I would like to have followed up the witnessing of the surrender by listening to his dictation of the order and Farewell Address the following day:

Headquarters, Army of Northern Virginia, 10th April 1865.

After four years of arduous service marked by unsurpassed courage and fortitude, the Army of Northern Virginia has been compelled to yield to overwhelming numbers and resources.

I need not tell the survivors of so many hard fought battles, who have remained steadfast to the last, that I have consented to the result from no distrust of them.

But feeling that valour and devotion could accomplish nothing that could compensate for the loss that must have attended the continuance of the contest, I have determined to avoid the useless sacrifice of those whose past services have endeared them to their countrymen.

By the terms of the agreement, officers and men can return to their homes and remain until exchanged. You will take with you the satisfaction that proceeds from the consciousness of duty faithfully performed, and I earnestly pray that a merciful God will extend to you his blessing and protection.

With an unceasing admiration of your constancy and devotion to your Country, and a grateful remembrance of your kind and generous consideration for myself, I bid you an affectionate farewell.

– R. E. Lee, General, General Order No. 9

[Volgadon]

Absolutely - and what they were doing is totally lacking in respect.
Going to Hastings seemed a bit surreal. There were children playing where one a very decisive and bloody battle had been fought, and people wandering around licking ice creams and looking at the story boards on the field in a desultory way. Now, perhaps that is at it should be and shows how futile wars actually are, but I found myself trying to imagine Harold and William both returning together and standing watching these people a thousand years on enjoying their day out. What would they think? Was it worth it? It's a game I often play, imagining a historical character into the present and wondering what they'd think!

I had one of those moments in Novorossiysk when I watched all the people swimming and picnicing at Malaya Zemlya, where the Red Army staged an amphibious landing to retake the city and spent several months under fire holding on to that bridgehead. I had the distinct feeling that those who fought there would be pleased.

[Margaret]

I had the distinct feeling that those who fought there would be pleased.

This makes me think of Picasso's Guernica, with the tiny sprouting plant coming up amid all the carnage. It's good to think that the marks of war's brutality can be erased over time and replaced with love and laughter.

Michael Shaara's historical novel, The Killer Angels, which is concentrated on the Battle of Gettysburg. Chamberlain plays a prominent role

You're right, and I've read The Killer Angels - how could I have forgotten? That book was so meticulously researched and carefully written, it almost seemed like nonfiction sometimes.

[Ash]

most definitely felt the residual misery, suffering, despair and death that remains in the atmosphere as we walked around.

This is a big reason why I could never visit a WWII concentration camp. It would just overwhelm me. I also can't go to Holocaust Museums, even tho I've been told that the one in DC is a must visit. Just too much history in my family to want to experience it in any way.

[Cuchulainn]

I would have liked to have been present at the birth of Christ.

[chuck]

To be a Brit scout or spy during the building of the Spanish Armada......follow them and then watch the battle, the storm and finally watch the survivors wash up on the Irish coast.....and be at Lord Nelson's final victory and tragic death....hard to imagine the effect of his death and funeral had on the English people....For me maybe President Kennedy's assassination......

[EC2]

For me maybe President Kennedy's assassination......

Standing next to the gun man of course - then you'd either know who he was or be able to grab him!