Which Bruce Trilogy?

[LCW]

I just bought a kindle and am in the process of stocking it with books. I'm interested in reading about Robert Bruce. I know that Nigel Tranter's book is supposed to be excellent but there's another author Gemini Sasson that I'm not sure about. Has anyone read any of this author's work? They look a little more romancy than Tranter's, which I'm ok with as long as they're not terrible.

[Brenna]

I read N. Gemini Sasson's two books in her Bruce trilogy. They were ok. Not stellar but easy reading. I received the Tranter trilogy for Christmas and plan to begin that series when I finish my current reads.

Jack Whyte who wrote 8 books on King Arthur and a Templar trilogy is writing a Scotland trilogy (the first one about William Wallace will be released in Feb in the U.S) mentions on his website that Tranter is the end all to be all on the Bruce. However, it is a bit dated.

[annis]

Nigel Tranter's Bruce trilogy is the "received" fictional version of Robert the Bruce's life and probably the one most Scots would go with - I think the feeling is that Gemini Sasson's version is a rather romanticised one.

Robert Low (The Lion Awakes (http://www.harpercollins.co.uk/Titles/49901/the-lion-wakes-robert-low-9780007337880)) and Robyn Young (Insurrection (http://www.robynyoung.com/insurrection.htm)) are in the process of writing trilogies about Robert the Bruce and the Wars of Scottish Independence- I thought both very good, though quite different in style.

I haven't read the Jack Whyte novel Forest Laird, which focuses on William Wallace, but it did get panned when first released in Canada. Both Robert Low and Jack Whyte make heavy use of Scottish dialect in their novels, which some readers find hard going, though I didn't personally find it a problem when I read Lion Awakes.

[rebecca]

Nigel Tranter's Bruce trilogy is the "received" fictional version of Robert the Bruce's life and probably the one most Scots would go with - I think the feeling is that Gemini Sasson's version is a rather romanticised one.

Robert Low (The Lion Awakes (http://www.harpercollins.co.uk/Titles/49901/the-lion-wakes-robert-low-9780007337880)) and Robyn Young (Insurrection (http://www.robynyoung.com/insurrection.htm)) are in the process of writing trilogies about Robert the Bruce and the Wars of Scottish Independence- I thought both very good, though quite different in style.

I haven't read the Jack Whyte novel Forest Laird, which focuses on William Wallace, but it did get panned when first released in Canada. Both Robert Low and Jack Whyte make heavy use of Scottish dialect in their novels, which some readers find hard going, though I didn't personally find it a problem when I read Lion Awakes.

"Robyn Young (Insurrection)" I can't seem to find any info on when Robyn young will publish the second in her trilogy. I bought Insurrection earleir this year but haven't read it yet as I wait and wait and wait for the next one to be released. But to have no info at all is, odd? Don't you think?

Bec:)

[annis]

Amazon UK gives the date for Insurrection 2 (Untitled) as August, 2012. I'm sure I saw RY mention somewhere that it was due for release early 2012, but the best laid plans and all that...

Lion at Bay, the second in Robert Low's Kingdom series is due out early March this year (still getting used to this year now being 2012!)

[rebecca]

Amazon UK gives the date for Insurrection 2 (Untitled) as August, 2012. I'm sure I saw RY mention somewhere that it was due for release early 2012, but the best laid plans and all that...

Lion at Bay, the second in Robert Low's Kingdom series is due out early March this year (still getting used to this year now being 2012!)

Thanks for that Annis. I will keep an eye out for both books.

Bec:)

[Cuchulainn]

Nigel Tranter's Bruce Trilogy was excellent - a high point, in my opinion, for Tranter. It was so good I bought more Tranter, but was disappointed because his other books lacked the narrative power of the Bruce Trilogy. I do suspect, however, that, as others have suggested, Bruce may be somewhat romaticized. But if you like a good story with well written characters then this is a plus, and not a detraction.

I wish I had not yet read Tranter's Bruce Trilogy so that I could have the joy of reading it again.

I just put down Robert Low's "The Lion Wakes," which, so far as I could tell from the first 100 pages, is a story about the time of Robert the Bruce's ascendancy. I can probably count on two hands the number of books I have bought, begun and put down. "The Lion Wakes" I found was very poorly written. I think Robert Low was going for a sort of third person-with-insight-that-isn't-shared-with-the-reader point of view (kind of like Frank Herbert's books) but I kept waiting to be compelled and, disappointingly, it never happened. So, personally, I wouldn't recommend it.

[Kveto from Prague]

ive read tranter's bruce trilogy. i liked it well enough. i remember discussing it in a tranter thread and most people, if i recall, seemed to agree it was his best stuff. I dont know much about the history there but it felt reasonably accurate.

[LCW]

The other day I found Tranter's book in my library of hundreds of books I haven't even touched yet. So I'll pass on Sasson's version for now.

Clearly Sasson's version looked lighter and more romantic, not to say it's bad, but I considered it as lately I've been less and less tolerant of dry novels that I have to trudge through. Why can't all authors be like Penman or Chadwick and strike that balance between an fun engaging novel with romantic tones without going over to the "dark side" and having it be a full on romance novel? Not that I don't like my Historical Romances, lol, sometimes I feel like induldging in a good one and nothing else will fit the bill. Like literary dessert...you can't eat it all the time but sometimes you need your fix! :D

[Brenna]

I'm reading Tranter's version now. So far I'm not overly impressed but I'll keep at it. (I'm only 70 pages in so it's not fair to judge!).

[Brenna]

It only took 200 pages, but I'm finally getting into the Nigel trilogy!

[Brenna]

Does anyone know why "must needs" is used constantly when all that is needed is "needs." Is this a Scottish thing or a Tranter thing?

[Jen Black]

Personally I liked Low's Lion Awakes. It isn't the easiest of reads because of the constant headhopping, but as the book progresses, the headhopping lessens. The characters are vivid, the incidents believable and there's a nice flavour of Scots aboutt he dialogue.

[Carla]

Does anyone know why "must needs" is used constantly when all that is needed is "needs." Is this a Scottish thing or a Tranter thing?

I'm not a grammarian, so I may be wrong on this, but since nobody else has replied yet I'll have a go. I think in 'must needs', the word 'needs' is being used as an adverb to add emphasis. The phrase has a slightly archaic sound to me, so maybe Tranter was using it for atmosphere?

[MLE]

It's a familiar old usage; Shakespeare uses it, but it's more often put as 'needs must'.

[Kveto from Prague]

interesting. we were discussing this term yesterday at the office. The closest modern equivalent is the term "have to". If you look at literature written 150 plus years ago you will never encounter the term "have to". It is a recent addition to common usage (im not sure how long it has been around but it has only grown in popularity in relatively recent history)

The discussion was originally regarding the modal "must" and the semi-modal "have to" as to how they used to have different connotations but are now fairly the same, particularly in North American English (still open to debate but give it 15 years)

If you read any older authors like Henty and Haggard when trying to write about the past. They will use "need" and "must needs" but never "have to".

[annis]

It is an old phrase and as MLE points out, in Middle English and Elizabethan usage it was "must needs" - in fact, only in more recent times did it become "needs must". These days it has quite an archaic feel and is gradually disappaearing, except for old sayings still in common use like "Needs must when thre devil drives".

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/needs-must.html

[Brenna]

Thanks everyone! I finally finished Tranter's trilogy on The Bruce. If you are looking for a comprehensive version of Bruce, this is it!

[Tom Miers]

I just bought a kindle and am in the process of stocking it with books. I'm interested in reading about Robert Bruce. I know that Nigel Tranter's book is supposed to be excellent but there's another author Gemini Sasson that I'm not sure about. Has anyone read any of this author's work? They look a little more romancy than Tranter's, which I'm ok with as long as they're not terrible.

Not sure about Sasson, but the Tranter books are great (or the Bruce trilogy is anyway - he wrote loads of others and they get a bit noddy). Learnt most of my Scottish history from them! Tom Miers (David Capel)

[ArthurRussell]

I hope you're well stocked at this stage. My contribution might be a little late, but Robert is a driving force behind the book's plot, as he helps his little brother invade an unruley Celtic Isle (aka Ireland). That would be Morgallion by Arthur Russell (my self of course :-). Good look with the virtual shelf-fleshing.

[Manda Scott]

Isn't it amazing how differently we read things? I read Rob Low's 'The Lion Wakes' and thought it was some of the best writing I'd read, easily comparable with Hilary Mantel's 'Wolf Hall' and with the added bonus that, as a Scot, it showed me what felt like a genuine history of my nation.

It's not that I don't like Nigel Tranter - I grew up reading him; my Dad was an ardent Scots nationalist and had ever NT book on his shelves - but the books haven't aged well to my mind while Rob's was fresh and sharp and wonderful - his love scene in that book is the best I have ever read anywhere, period...

manda

[annis]

I loved Lion Wakes. Not long ago I read the sequel, Lion at Bay, and thought it even better, though I wouldn't have supposed that possible. Rob has really hit a nice balance here for readers not so familiar with Scottish history and dialect, without losing the distinctive Scottish voice which made Lion Wakes such a treat. There's plenty more bloody violence and treachery, great action and suspense, yet ongoing character development as familar friends and foes grow older and wearier of the endless struggle adds depth and pyschological understanding to the mix. Brilliant.

[rebecca]

I loved Lion Wakes. Not long ago I read the sequel, Lion at Bay, and thought it even better, though I wouldn't have supposed that possible. Rob has really hit a nice balance here for readers not so familiar with Scottish history and dialect, without losing the distinctive Scottish voice which made Lion Wakes such a treat. There's plenty more bloody violence and treachery, great action and suspense, yet ongoing character development as familar friends and foes come to terms with growing older and weary of the endless struggle adds depth and pyschological understanding to the mix. Brilliant.

I have both books but haven't read them yet. My grandfather was born in Scotland and till the day he died I never understood a word he said:eek: except when he ended his sentences with 'an wot ye thunk of tat wee lassie?' I would love to visit Scotland one day *sigh*. But I will have to start reading the books I have on Bruce....I also have Youngs first book and will buy the second in her trilogy in a few weeks.

I did try & read Tranter's Wallace book but I couldn't finish it.

Bec:)

[Carla]

I'd second the recommendations of Robert Low's Lion Wakes (and on current showing also Lion At Bay, though I'm only a couple of chapters in so can't really comment yet). I didn't have any problem with the dialect, though I know one or two people who did - there's a glossary in the back of the book that's worth bookmarking for anyone who does find the dialect words puzzling.

I still like Tranter's Bruce trilogy, having re-read it a few months ago. I noticed Robert Low's author's note said 'I hope Nigel Tranter is not birling in his grave too much', or words to that effect, which was a nice touch :-)