looking for novels from obscure periods

[Kveto from Prague]

im new here. iwas wondering if anyone can recommend some novels set in relatively obscure periods/places. basically no roman empire, no vikings,no midevil england, etc. im interested in:

the crusades (crusaders states especially)

the migration of nations (4th to 7th century, Vandals, visigoths, etc.)

pornocracy Rome (10th century rome, between the fall of the empire and renassainse)

Byzantium (and ive read Lawheads byzantium)

Midevil Sicily

16-17th century Sweden

Hussite wars

etc.

and im not a huge fan of historical mysteries. i like very authentic stuff (with research)

any help advice would be greatly appreciated.

regards,
keny from prague

[donroc]

Welcome Keny.

For Byzantium, I can recommend The Bearkeeper's Daughter by Gillian Bradshaw

It is the story of Theodosia's rise.

[Kveto from Prague]

thnx, donroc. i shall keep an eye out for it definitly.

[Margaret]

I love your term "pornocracy Rome" - LOL! There's a "Byzantium and Constantinople" section on the "Medieval" page at my Historical Novels website that lists Bradshaw's The Bearkeeper's Daughter and a bunch of other novels set in the Eastern Roman Empire.

Bradshaw writes a lot of "off-the-beaten-path" historical novels. Her most recent, The Sun's Bride, is about the maritime republic of Rhodes in the third century B.C. I've reviewed it at http://www.HistoricalNovels.info/Suns-Bride.html.

[Leyland]

For Crusaders and Frankish rulers in Outremer, you may want to look up information on Cecelia Holland's Jerusalem. She is a talented writer and researches her settings very well. She also wrote one of my favorite novels, Great Maria, set in Medieval Sicily.

[Kveto from Prague]

I love your term "pornocracy Rome" - LOL! There's a "Byzantium and Constantinople" section on the "Medieval" page at my Historical Novels website that lists Bradshaw's The Bearkeeper's Daughter and a bunch of other novels set in the Eastern Roman Empire.

Bradshaw writes a lot of "off-the-beaten-path" historical novels. Her most recent, The Sun's Bride, is about the maritime republic of Rhodes in the third century B.C. I've reviewed it at http://www.HistoricalNovels.info/Suns-Bride.html.

thanks, id love to take credit for "pornocracy" but i didnt come up with it. I read a non-fiction called "the bad popes" and it uses this term for the clan warfare amonst papal families in 10th century rome. a woman, mariozia, i believe who had several of her lovers made popes, and even put her illegitimate son on the papal throne. in fact, i cant believe a talented writer hasnt gone for that period. it had all of the sex, scandal and decadence any reader could want. if i had any talent whatsoever id try but i dont:-(

third century Rhodes! im so interested in that. thanks.

[Kveto from Prague]

For Crusaders and Frankish rulers in Outremer, you may want to look up information on Cecelia Holland's Jerusalem. She is a talented writer and researches her settings very well. She also wrote one of my favorite novels, Great Maria, set in Medieval Sicily.

Thanks for the advice. Ive read Hollands Jerusalum and really didnt like it at all. I felt she missed the period completely, and her novel was way too "modern" for my tastes, but thats only my opinion. im a tough grader when it comes to the crusades as ive devoured every bit of non-fiction available on them.

a really brilliant take on the whole of the crusades is Evan Conell"s "Deus lo Volt!" possibly the best fiction on the crusades ever. it feels so authentic at times i wondered if it was a historical document. he really did his research. but i cant imagine anyone liking it aside from myself. the style is so authentic that its a difficult read but every bit in there is historical fact as far as i can tell. he really "got it right" unlike "jerusalum" which didnt feel authentic at all to me. His level of research was astounding. even the title is Latin with a french influence as would have been used at the time. im sure many like hollands jerusalum, just not my cup of tea.

thanks for the response:-)
regards

[Ash]

>the crusades (crusaders states especially),
the migration of nations (4th to 7th century, Vandals, visigoths, etc.)
Byzantium (and ive read Lawheads byzantium)

Oh a man after my own heart; I love all of those subjects but so rarely find something good. So I am also eager for any suggestions as well!

I would suggest Judith Tarr's Queen of Swords about the crusades. I tried to read Volt and couldn't get into it. I may have to try again.

[annis]

I enjoyed Graham Shelby's novels about the Crusades
1. The Knights of Dark Renown
2. The Kings of Vain Intent
He wrote another stand-alone novel with a Crusades setting called
"The Edge of the Blade"

A more modern series which appealed to me (and also fits into the Byzantium category) is Tom Harper's "Demetrios Askiades" trilogy, which starts in Byzantium and follows the path of the First Crusade from there to Jerusalem.
1. The Mosaic of Shadows
2. Knights of the Cross
3. Siege of Heaven

Michael Eisner's "Crusader" is another one worth trying.

[Kveto from Prague]

>the crusades (crusaders states especially),
the migration of nations (4th to 7th century, Vandals, visigoths, etc.)
Byzantium (and ive read Lawheads byzantium)

Oh a man after my own heart; I love all of those subjects but so rarely find something good. So I am also eager for any suggestions as well!

I would suggest Judith Tarr's Queen of Swords about the crusades. I tried to read Volt and couldn't get into it. I may have to try again.

thnx. Ill look into the queen of swords.

i really understand why "Volt" is hard to get into as its not really a story until you get to the authours personal narrative of the 6th and 7th crusades with king Louis. i only loved it because its basically a historical tome of crusade anecdotes rewriten in the guise of fiction. the best way to read it is after reading a historical account of the crusades (id recommend zoe oldeberg, steven howerth, or riely-smith). then you are always saying "i remember that" as you read "volt". but like i said, i think i might be the only reader who enjoyed it.

Robert Howards stuff on the crusades is surprisingly good and well researched. i cant stand conan but when howard does away with the magic and fantasy he can create some very morose crusader tales compiled in "lord of Samarcand". the best one is "lion of tiberius" a spot on story about Zhengi, one of Saladins predesessors in the war against the crusader states. he really captures the "feel" of east meets west.

good reading to you

[Kveto from Prague]

I enjoyed Graham Shelby's novels about the Crusades
1. The Knights of Dark Renown
2. The Kings of Vain Intent
He wrote another stand-alone novel with a Crusades setting called
"The Edge of the Blade"

A more modern series which appealed to me (and also fits into the Byzantium category) is Tom Harper's "Demetrios Askiades" trilogy, which starts in Byzantium and follows the path of the First Crusade from there to Jerusalem.
1. The Mosaic of Shadows
2. Knights of the Cross
3. Siege of Heaven

Michael Eisner's "Crusader" is another one worth trying.

thanks, ill give them a look. thje "demetrios" sounds particulary interesting.

Ive read eisners "crusader" which was a nice account, particularly of the "hole" prison and a good read despite the hollywood style ending which didnt harm the book too much.

[annis]

Just remembered a novel about the Hussites
"Crushed yet Conquering" (http://www.amazon.com/Crushed-Yet-Conquering-Constance-Reformation/dp/1894666011/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222556992&sr=8-1), by Deborah Alcock.

[MLE]

The Splendor is set in Prague. I can't recommend it as I got no more than a few chapters in before I became impatient with the pacing.

[Melisende]

Stephen Grundy
- Rhinegold (Saga of Siegfried)
- Attila's Treasure

Stephen J Rivelle
- A Booke of Days (Crusader's narrative)

Richard Condon
- A Trembling Upon Rome (Baldassare Cossa)

Judith Tarr
- The Dagger & the Cross (Crusades)

Susan Peak
- Crusader King (Baldwin IV)

Michael Mott
- The Blind Cross (Children's Crusade)

Orville Richolson
- The Rosewood Chalice (Crusades)

Derek Wilson
- The Dresden Text (Modern-day / Teutonic Knights 1400s) - in the style of Raymond Khoury's "The Last Templar" but written long before.

[Carla]

Hi Keny

A few suggestions:

Crusades/Byzantium

Count Bohemond, by Alfred Duggan (First Crusade, including a fair bit about Byzantium). More details here: http://www.carlanayland.org/reviews/count_bohemond.htm

Knights of the Cross, by Tom Harper (First Crusade) - annis has mentioned this already, together with the others in the series

Byzantium

Count Belisarius, by Robert Graves (6th-century Byzantium at the time of the Emperor Justinian)

Britain after the Romans and before the Vikings

Wolf Girl, by Theresa Tomlinson (seventh-century Northumbria, a cross between a historical mystery and a historical adventure, billed as YA, well researched). More details here: http://www.carlanayland.org/reviews/wolf_girl.htm

You could also try my own novel Paths of Exile, set in seventh-century Northumbria. More information on my website: http://www.carlanayland.org/exile/index.htm

Non-Roman, non-Viking, non-medieval England

Nefertiti, by Michelle Moran (Ancient Egypt). More details here: http://www.carlanayland.org/reviews/nefertiti.htm

The Blood of Flowers, by Anita Amirrezvani (16th/17th-century Iran, against a background of carpet-making in Isfahan. I'm only partway through this but so far it's a good read in an unusual setting)

The King Must Die and The Bull from the Sea, by Mary Renault (Bronze Age Greece, a retelling of the Theseus legends). More details here: http://www.carlanayland.org/reviews/bull-sea.htm

Hope this helps.

[annis]

I was thinking about tenth-century Rome, and recalled this one, which is ancient (pub. 1907) and a little dated and melodramatic in style, but quite a good story
"The Sorceress of Rome" , by Nathan Gallizier
It deals with the struggle between the Germans and the Romans at the time of the rebellion of Johannes Crescentius, the Senator of Rome and features the boy-king Otto III and Popes Gregory and Sylvester.


You can buy second-hand copies, but it is available free to read from the Internet Archive here:
http://www.archive.org/details/sorceressofrome00galliala

A more modern novel of the tenth century featuring Gerbert of Aurillac, who would become Pope Sylvester II
Chet Raymo's book "In the Falcon's Claw: a novel of the Year 1000"
http://www.amazon.com/Falcons-Claw-Novel-Year-1000/dp/1561012874

[LCW]

Stupid question: Are the crusades really considered obscure? Seems there are tons of novels set during the Crusades and in Outremer/The Holy Lank.

[Cuchulainn]

Have a look at Alfred Duggan - although some of his books are about the times and places you've indicated you are not interested in, many of his books are not: his speciality was obscure times and places.

[Kveto from Prague]

Have a look at Alfred Duggan - although some of his books are about the times and places you've indicated you are not interested in, many of his books are not: his speciality was obscure times and places.


thanks cuchulainn, Alfred Duggan is my favourite writer. im working my way through most of his stuff and i love his style. i guess im looking for someone who writes in a similar style and less common time periods.

[Kveto from Prague]

I was thinking about tenth-century Rome, and recalled this one, which is ancient (pub. 1907) and a little dated and melodramatic in style, but quite a good story
"The Sorceress of Rome" , by Nathan Gallizier
It deals with the struggle between the Germans and the Romans at the time of the rebellion of Johannes Crescentius, the Senator of Rome and features the boy-king Otto III and Popes Gregory and Sylvester.


You can buy second-hand copies, but it is available free to read from the Internet Archive here:
http://www.archive.org/details/sorceressofrome00galliala

A more modern novel of the tenth century featuring Gerbert of Aurillac, who would become Pope Sylvester II
Chet Raymo's book "In the Falcon's Claw: a novel of the Year 1000"
http://www.amazon.com/Falcons-Claw-Novel-Year-1000/dp/1561012874

sounds good thanks. ive read quite a bit of non-fiction on Gerbert. be nice to see him in fiction.

and thanks to others for your help:-)

[Ash]

Stupid question: Are the crusades really considered obscure? Seems there are tons of novels set during the Crusades and in Outremer/The Holy Lank.

I think it depends on the focus of the book. If its written through the eyes of the Western knights, then yeah, those are a dime a dozen. The ones Im interested in is how the people in the area responded. Those tend to be rarer I think. One of my favs is Judith Tarrs Queen of Swords, for example.

[EC2]

I think it depends on the focus of the book. If its written through the eyes of the Western knights, then yeah, those are a dime a dozen. The ones Im interested in is how the people in the area responded. Those tend to be rarer I think. One of my favs is Judith Tarrs Queen of Swords, for example.

I'm with you on that one Ash, I'd rate Queen of Swords highly too.
As another forum member suggested, the Graham Shelby novels are good - Knights of Dark Renown and Kings of Vain intent. I wasn't so struck on The Edge of the Blade - felt Shelby slightly lost the plot. There's The Book of Saladin by Tariq Ali; that's slow moving but well written.
There are also the books by Robyn Young starting with Brethren - crusade/Templar romp. I DNF the first one but they might be someone else's cup of tea.

[Margaret]

The Crusades lasted for around 2 centuries, so within that time some particular periods have been explored better than others. I just posted the new Crusades subpage (http://www.HistoricalNovels.info/Crusades.html) to the Medieval section of my website, which lists over 80 novels. A good number are about the Albigensian Crusade against the Cathars in France, which is not usually what people think of in connection with the Crusades. There are quite a few about the First Crusade, and just under 20, I think, about the Crusades in the twelfth century in which Richard the Lionheart was involved. I've undoubtedly missed a few, especially by 19th century writers. There's also a 25-book (so far) mystery series by Michael Jecks about a couple of Templar Knights who solve mysteries back home in Devonshire after they return from crusading - I haven't read any of these, but I put them in the Crusades category because the synopses put so much emphasis on their past as Crusaders.

There were some unsuccessful wars against the Moors in Spain (the epic poem Song of Roland is about one of these) which preceded the war to capture Jerusalem that became known as the First Crusade. Some scholars think the exposure of French knights to Moorish culture during this period may have inspired the first troubadours. So far, I haven't come across any novels about these early wars against the Moors, though it seems like Roland would have inspired a few, and the birth of the troubadour phenomenon would make a great subject for a novel.

[annis]

It is surprising isn't it? As we discovered earlier, there don't seem to be that many novels around about Charlemagne and his famous commander, Roland.

There is an old novel by Frank Yerby, called "An Odor of Sanctity (http://www.amazon.com/Odor-Sanctity-Frank-Yerby/dp/0440101344)"
which is set in early medieval Moorish Spain, and features the mix and clash of cultures- Moors, Goths and Jews.

[Kveto from Prague]

It is surprising isn't it? As we discovered earlier, there don't seem to be that many novels around about Charlemagne and his famous commander, Roland.

There is an old novel by Frank Yerby, called "An Odor of Sanctity (http://www.amazon.com/Odor-Sanctity-Frank-Yerby/dp/0440101344)"
which is set in early medieval Moorish Spain, and features the mix and clash of cultures- Moors, Goths and Jews.


terrible, isnt it? i find the paladins of charlemagne far more interesting than tired old authur and his done to death camelot. in my opinion.

but not only the brilliant song of roland, but "orlando Innamorato" (roland in love) by Boriado and "orlando furioso" (roland mad) by Aristo are also fantastic historical fantasy. these two italian masters created a much more fallable hero than any character from Morte d Arthur, in my opinion. a hero who fosakes his duty due in an insane love, and cant fathom the idea that any woman would reject him. you can find good English translations in Bulfinchs age of Chivalry. these are epics just witing to be re-written as historical fantasy.

[sweetpotatoboy]

As another forum member suggested, the Graham Shelby novels are good - Knights of Dark Renown and Kings of Vain intent. I wasn't so struck on The Edge of the Blade - felt Shelby slightly lost the plot.

The only Graham Shelby I've read, or tried to read, was The Wolf At The Door. I can't remember how far I got but I remember being bored to tears and uninterested in any of the characters. Maybe I was just in the wrong mood.

[EC2]

The only Graham Shelby I've read, or tried to read, was The Wolf At The Door. I can't remember how far I got but I remember being bored to tears and uninterested in any of the characters. Maybe I was just in the wrong mood.

The Wolf at the Door is not Shelby at his best, Sweetpotatoboy. I seem to recall I began reading that one and DNF. The Knights of Dark Renown is the one to go for if you're going to read one of his

[annis]

I consider "Knights of Dark Renown" and "Kings of Vain Intent" to be Graham Shelby's best work, though I believe that he received a bit of flak here and there for his portrayal of Conrad Monferrat as über -villain in KOVI.
In 'Edge of the Blade" I have the feeling that he was feeling a bit playful, and going for a "Boy's Own" style adventure.

[annis]

Keny, maybe there is historical fiction in French about Charlemagne and his paladins which we don't have access to?

And speaking of historical fiction from other languages, I recently came across this nineteenth century book written by a German author which might appeal to you ( it has been translated into English, luckily)
"The Struggle for Rome" (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Struggle-Rome-Felix-Dahn/dp/1844014444) by Felix Dahn.
It's set in the sixth century AD, when the Roman Empire had crumbled into dust and is about the struggle for Rome, and for Italy, between the Eastern Roman Empire of Byzantium, ruled by Justinian, and the Gothic warrior tribes who had captured Italy under their legendary king Theodoric.

[Ash]

I've long been fascinated by Moorish Spain, someday want to see Al hambra, and would love some HF about that time and place. Any ideas? (after that, no - I have read more than enough of the expulsion of the Muslims and Jews, and the Inquisition to never want to read about that time again)

[EC2]

I consider "Knights of Dark Renown" and "Kings of Vain Intent" to be Graham Shelby's best work, though I believe that he received a bit of flak here and there for his portrayal of Conrad Monferrat as über -villain in KOVI.
In 'Edge of the Blade" I have the feeling that he was feeling a bit playful, and going for a "Boy's Own" style adventure.

Yes, I've seen the flack discussions on various forums re Conrad of Montferrat. I don't know enought about that aspect to have an opinion either way.
Re Edge of the Blade. I really enjoyed this at the beginning, but it had a VERY strange ending - as if the author had suddenly got bored and stopped in mid sentence. It went something like 'And that was the rest of the young man's life.' I remember thinking 'Eh? Is this all?' Most peculiar.

[annis]

Ash, if you don't mind tackling an older book (1831), you might enjoy Washington Irving's "Tales of the Alhambra" (http://www.amazon.com/Tales-Alhambra-Washington-Irving/dp/8471690268).

I'm trying to remember if Paulo Coelho's novel "The Alchemist" features the Alhambra- it's so long now since i read it.

[diamondlil]

Tales of the Alhambra is the book that Fanny had read in the mini-series version of North and South!

I don't remember a mention of the Alhambra in The Alchemist but it has been a while for me to.

You know you are enjoying a book when you are disappointed to see the people that you sometimes chat with on the train. Less reading time!

[Ash]

Annis, thanks, now have that in my shopping cart.

[Kveto from Prague]

Keny, maybe there is historical fiction in French about Charlemagne and his paladins which we don't have access to?

I dont know about french or german. I know theres some stuff in Italiano as the Italian masters (aristo and boriado) kind of adopted these heros in their epics. really masterful works which basically invented the concept of following multiple storylines. im really surprised somebody hasnt tackled them for fiction. i had ambitions to do so many years before but unfortunately i can't write.

i bought some great sicilian puppets in palermo based on orlando (roland), rinaldo and angelica, characters from the Orlando poems

ive read some YA fiction about the peers of charlemagne but nothing noteworthy.

And speaking of historical fiction from other languages, I recently came across this nineteenth century book written by a German author which might appeal to you ( it has been translated into English, luckily)
"The Struggle for Rome" (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Struggle-Rome-Felix-Dahn/dp/1844014444) by Felix Dahn.
It's set in the sixth century AD, when the Roman Empire had crumbled into dust and is about the struggle for Rome, and for Italy, between the Eastern Roman Empire of Byzantium, ruled by Justinian, and the Gothic warrior tribes who had captured Italy under their legendary king Theodoric.

that sounds way cool. thanks for the tip. ill look out for it.

[annis]

Seeing we discussed Charlemagne, I'll add this novel which I just came across, though Charlemagne is not necessarily a hero in this story which is
about the rise of the Carolingian Empire and set in Italy. The protagonist is a Langobard prince swept up in the Carolingian empire, but the real point of the novel is that it's an analysis of how people compromise in the face of power, and how power corrupts.
This novel was insrtumental in making the author a Nobel Prize winner for literature.
By Swedish author Eyvind Johnson
"The Days of his Grace" (In English translation)
http://www.amazon.com/days-His-Grace-novel/dp/0814906818/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223866031&sr=8-1

[Kveto from Prague]

again annis, thanks for the great tip