"Nithing"

[LCW]

What does it mean to say to someone, "You are nithing!"??

It's in the EC book I'm reading now and I can't find any info from a google search. Basically I gather it means you are nothing or less than nothing to me, something like that. Anyone have any more specific info??

[SonjaMarie]

Well only EC can answer this, but maybe it was a typo?

I just did a search an came up with this:
"The word nithing also occurs as niding in modern English. It comes from the Old Norse niðingr and Old English niðing. According to the OED (Shorter OED, 3rd ed, 1959) the meaning is "A vile coward; an abject wretch; a villain of the lowest type". Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) gives the definition "A coward; a dastard; -- a term of utmost opprobrium.""

Maybe that's it? But again only EC can answer.

SM

[Misfit]

I've come across it on occasions as well, especially in books on Harold Godwinsson. I believe it's a Saxon expression -- kind of like being disowned by the family and they'll have nothing further to do with them. I'm sure EC or others will weigh in soon with better answers.

[Cuchulainn]

I've seen the term most often used in books about Vikings, and it is used as basically one of the worst things you can say to someone: I take it to mean that you are utterly devoid of any of even the least virtues that would make worthy of recognition in society; it means you're not even good enough to be considered loathsome; you're completely worthless.

[donroc]

Great word. Should be brought back into conversation. Less than zero = nithing?

[JaneConsumer]

The OED Online says it's both a noun and an adjective.

1. A coward, a villain; a person who breaks the law or a code of honour; an outlaw.

2. A mean or niggardly person; a miser. Obs.

As an adjective, it means: Mean, niggardly (obs.); cowardly, treacherous.

[annis]

"Nithing" was also used as an insult in Anglo-Saxon England.
The word "nithing" apparently survived into the mid-19th century in dialects in parts of England, ( meaning -“vile coward, wretch, villain of the lowest type")
The root of the word is similar in both Scandinavian and Germanic languages, including Anglo-Saxon.

<Níð (Old Norse) (Anglo-Saxon nith, Old High German (OHG) nid(d), modern German form Neid, modern Low Saxon nied) in ancient Germanic mythology was the constituting and qualifying attribute for people suspected of being a malicious mythological creature called nithing (Old Norse níðing, OHG nidding, more recent High German Neiding). Nith literally meant "envy, hate, malice, insidiousness".>

The insult could be compounded by setting up what was called a "nithing post"
There's a bit about this practice here (http://books.google.com/books?id=xyXW85qFdH4C&pg=PA155&lpg=PA155&dq=%22nithing+post%22&source=web&ots=9olbAIt9UP&sig=QP2aaA_1Q-bMmov87jDANoEmDpQ&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result)-

[EC2]

I'm late to this and everyone's explained just as well if not better than I could!
Absolutely. Treacherous, cowardly, dirt beneath the shoes, to be shunned, lowest of the low. Worst name you could call a person in late Anglo Saxon England (don't know about early, haven't studied that!)

[Cuchulainn]

I'm late to this and everyone's explained just as well if not better than I could!
Absolutely. Treacherous, cowardly, dirt beneath the shoes, to be shunned, lowest of the low. Worst name you could call a person in late Anglo Saxon England (don't know about early, haven't studied that!)

"Anathema," if you will

[annis]

And in the odd-spot category- just in case you thought that the practice of setting up a spite-stake, or nithing-post died out with the Vikings and Anglo-Saxons, here's a post from a relatively contemporary pagan tp prove you wrong!
http://www.traditionalwitchcraft.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=16273

[Margaret]

I just checked the etymology in my compact OED, and "nithing" is an old Anglo-Saxon word that has a completely different origin from "nothing," which is a contraction of "no" plus "thing."

[Volgadon]

And in the odd-spot category- just in case you thought that the practice of setting up a spite-stake, or nithing-post died out with the Vikings and Anglo-Saxons, here's a post from a relatively contemporary pagan tp prove you wrong!
http://www.traditionalwitchcraft.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=16273

I would say it had died out, but was ressurected.

[annis]

It's easy to see how the confusion between the words "nothing" and "nithing" can arise, but "nithing" doesn't mean that someone is worth nothing, but that they have the heinous qualities of "nith" i.e. extreme wickedness, maliciousness, sneakiness or cowardice and stinginess. It was one of the worst possible insults, and a person named a "nithing" might find that the shame made it impossible for him to remain part of his community. As an insult it was a sure-fire starter if you wanted to provoke a duel, and amongst the Vikings, when the insult was augmented by a nithing-post the insulted person could seek redress against the one who insulted him by legal process.
We tend to think of the Vikings as solving all problems by the sword, but in fact they were a litigious lot, who loved nothing better than having a legal debate to mull over.