The Wars of the Roses

[Margaret]

The Wars of the Roses is a popular setting for historical novels, for good reason. There are so many fascinating characters in this time period: the smart and scheming Margaret of Anjou (as far as I can tell, only one novelist, Jean Plaidy, has written a novel devoted primarily to her, The Red Rose of Anjou), who was married to the mentally incapacitated King Henry VI; Edward IV, his wife Elizabeth Woodville, and his various mistresses; and of course Richard III.

Sharon Kay Penman's The Sunne in Splendour has been discussed in the Author thread for SKP. (I've reviewed it at http://www.HistoricalNovels.info/Sunne-in-Splendour.html.) Some of the other novelists who have written about Richard III are Rosemary Hawley Jarman, Reay Tannahill, and Sandra Worth.

Novelists who have written about Edward IV include the nineteenth century novelist Edward Bulwer-Lytton, famous for his purple prose (The Last of the Barons), and Jean Plaidy (The Sun in Splendour - not to be confused with Sunne!), who also wrote a novel about Edward's mistress Jane Shore (The Goldsmith's Wife). Rosemary Hawley Jarman wrote about Elizabeth Woodville in The King's Grey Mare.

Plus, there are various novels about daughters and other relations of these people.

Anyone have any favorites from this setting aside from The Sunne in Splendour?

[Amanda]

I have another book about Margaret of Anjou called "Queen of Lions" by Alan Savage. Haven't read it yet though.

[lindymc]

Anyone have any favorites from this setting aside from The Sunne in Splendour?

I enjoyed A Rose for the Crown by Anne Easter Smith, about the fictional woman who might have been the mother of Richard III's bastard children.

[Margaret]

Queen of Lions certainly seems like an appropriate title for a novel about Margaret of Anjou! Be sure to let us know what you think once you've read it, Amanda.

Anne Easter Smith is on my TBR list. She wrote another one, Daughter of York, about the sister of Edward IV and Richard III, who married the French Charles the Bold, Duke of Burgundy.

[boswellbaxter]

Though you wouldn't guess it from its rather demure cover, Queen of Lions is, er, interesting, to say the least. Its most memorable feature is Margaret of Anjou's having sex with men, women, and boys of all classes and in all manner of places.

There are several others about Margaret of Anjou. One, by Ruth S. Perot, called The Red Queen, is reviewed here (http://susandhigginbotham.blogspot.com/2008/06/mini-review-red-queen-by-ruth-s-perot.html), and there's an older one by Barnaby Ross called The Passionate Queen that's on my TBR pile.

I'm fond of Jan Westcott's The White Rose, about Elizabeth Woodville (a more sympathetic portrayal than usual) and of Reay Tannahill's The Seventh Son, about Richard III (a sympathetic, but not too-good-to-be-true portrayal of that king). Brenda Honeyman, aka Brenda Clarke, has also written a number of novels set during the Wars of the Roses.

[Amanda]

Though you wouldn't guess it from its rather demure cover, Queen of Lions is, er, interesting, to say the least. Its most memorable feature is Margaret of Anjou's having sex with men, women, and boys of all classes and in all manner of places.

Sounds like quite a romp! What a busy woman, all that and trying to run a civil war as well!

[EC2]

Anyone have any favorites from this setting aside from The Sunne in Splendour?

Treason by Meredith Whitford is very good - best of the recent bunch IMO if very pro-Richard.
The Adventures of Alianore Audeley by Brian Wainwright is a great romp - Richard III is a peripheral character in this

[JaneConsumer]

There's a good bibliography of Wars of Roses fiction (http://www.richardiii.net/wor%20novels.htm) at the Richard III Society Web site.

[Misfit]

Treason by Meredith Whitford is very good - best of the recent bunch IMO if very pro-Richard.
The Adventures of Alianore Audeley by Brian Wainwright is a great romp - Richard III is a peripheral character in this


Treason is good and Alianore Audeley is good fun. House of Lanyon by Anand covers that period but a very boring book IMO.

[Ariadne]

I enjoyed House of Lanyon quite a bit, but it's not a good choice if you want or expect firsthand descriptions of battles or politics at the time of the Wars of the Roses.

There's an entire book on this topic: The Wars of the Roses in Fiction: An Annotated Bibliography, 1440-1994 by Roxane C. Murph. It includes a number of obscure titles.

[Vanessa]

I have House of Lanyan on my TBR pile - is it one of those books which you either love or hate?

[LCW]

There's Lady of the Roses by Sandra Worth. I thought it was a decent read. Not the best I've ever read but good!

[Misfit]

I have House of Lanyan on my TBR pile - is it one of those books which you either love or hate?


I've read other books by Anand and enjoyed them very much. This one I just found way too predictable I could see every plot twist coming a mile away. That, and the fact that I didn't care for any of the characters just made for a very blah read for me.

Although it could just be me. Everyone has gone gaga over Mistress of the Sun and me, well it made the list. :):p

[Juniper]

I loved the trilogy by Posie Graeme-Evans about Edward IV, Elizabeth Woodville and the fictional illigetimate daughter of Henry VI. All three books gripped me from start to finish.

[diamondlil]

I really hated the first half of the first book in the Posie Graeme-Evans trilogy, then loved the second half. I liked the second book but for some reason haven't been inspired to pick up the third yet.

[Carine]

I lovd reading the Posie Graeme-Evans trilogy, even though the first half of the first book was a bit disturbing.

Marg, the third book is certainly worth reading too.

[EC2]

The author plays very fast and loose with the history doesn't she? I've read and been underwhelmed by the second one - The Exiled - and was very surprised to come across a detailed scene with a prosperous Jew - 150 years after the Jews were all expelled from England. I also understand from friends who know the history of the time better than me that the actual likelihood of Henry VI having a bastard daughter are very remote and totally out of known character.

[Carine]

Yes, you have a point there EC2.

[Margaret]

Henry VI with a bastard daughter! That does seem preposterous. I'm not an expert in this period, but he seems to have been (a) so mindlessly pious he would have been happier as a monk and (b) so mentally frail for most of his life that he was kept on a pretty tight rein by his wife and counsellors.

Perhaps we should have a thread on preposterous historical novels, as there are quite a few of them. One which I thought was particularly ridiculous (I don't recall the author or title) was set during the Civil War between Stephen and Matilda and based on the theory that they were secretly in love with each other.

[Misfit]

Perhaps we should have a thread on preposterous historical novels, as there are quite a few of them. One which I thought was particularly ridiculous (I don't recall the author or title) was set during the Civil War between Stephen and Matilda and based on the theory that they were secretly in love with each other.

I've read that book and it's sequel. Don't forget that the author made Henry Stephen and Maude's child :eek::eek: I read the sequel as well and that was even worse. She had Eleanor going on Crusade and having icky sexual type stuff going on with her uncle.

[EC2]

I've read that book and it's sequel. Don't forget that the author made Henry Stephen and Maude's child :eek::eek: I read the sequel as well and that was even worse. She had Eleanor going on Crusade and having icky sexual type stuff going on with her uncle.

Is that the Ellen Jones book Misfit - Beloved Enemy? Not read it, but I've heard about it. Jean Plaidy based a novel on that premise too. It's all down to some comment in a chronicle where Stephen says something loving towards Henry and it's been (wilfully) misconstrued by modern mindset. A bit like trendy historians at one time saying Richard I was gay because he shared a bed with Philip of France.

[Juniper]

The author plays very fast and loose with the history doesn't she? I've read and been underwhelmed by the second one - The Exiled - and was very surprised to come across a detailed scene with a prosperous Jew - 150 years after the Jews were all expelled from England. I also understand from friends who know the history of the time better than me that the actual likelihood of Henry VI having a bastard daughter are very remote and totally out of known character.


I don't know about the scene with the Jew, but you're definitely right in saying it was unlikely that Henry VI had a bastard daughter! That took me a while to get my head around.

[Margaret]

Oh, my, I had forgotten the part about Henry II being Stephen's child. Henry would have been furious, wouldn't he?

People used to share beds and sleep with many beds to a room, because it was hard to heat those old castles. There's a scene in one of the Tristan and Isolde stories that has King Mark dusting flour over the floor between the beds, then spending a night away from the castle, so he can tell if Tristan leaves footprints traipsing from one bed to the other during the night. One of the weirdest modern misinterpretations, IMHO, is the one that deduces Abraham Lincoln must have been gay because he occasionally shared a bed with another man.

[Margaret]

I've finally got the "Wars of the Roses" page posted at my website: http://www.HistoricalNovels.info/Wars-of-the-Roses.html. Thanks to everyone here who suggested novels in this period - there were quite a few that had not previously been listed on the "Medieval" page. It's amazing to me how many novels have been written about Edward IV, Richard III, and their cohorts. I don't think there's another outpouring of novels focusing on one generation of royals until Henry VIII and his wives. It was an exceptionally dramatic time period, of course, with many interesting people to write about!

[Volgadon]

Actually, it's a bit of a myth that all the Jews left. Legally and officialy they weren't there, but............

[Christina]

Dusting the floor to trace footprints!!! LOL!!

I am very much looking forward to the release of Sandra Worth's new book: "The King's Daughter - the first Tudor Queen" which, I hope, will throw a lot of light onto the mystery of Elizabeth of York. I had never considered, until I read the preview of this book, how amazing it is that Henry VIII's mother is so lost among so many other people of that time....I am sure it will be a brilliant read :-)

[Margaret]

You're right, Christina - it's amazing she hasn't had more written about her. She must have been trained from childhood to hate and fear everything Henry VII represented. It's very interesting that they named their first son Arthur, harking back to a Celtic hero figure who united Britain. I'm sure they were highly conscious of the symbolism of that. And then when he died ...

[Misfit]

Jean Plaidy wrote Uneasy Lies the Head and recently republished as To Hold The Crown. Although the new book jacket claims to be Elizabeth's story (a love story !!!), it really focuses on Henry VII and his difficulties holding on to his crown admidst all the false claimants. Elizabeth was a virtual door mat, a non-entity. I'd like to read her story.

[boswellbaxter]

Jean Plaidy wrote Uneasy Lies the Head and recently republished as To Hold The Crown. Although the new book jacket claims to be Elizabeth's story (a love story !!!), it really focuses on Henry VII and his difficulties holding on to his crown admidst all the false claimants. Elizabeth was a virtual door mat, a non-entity. I'd like to read her story.

There are several other historical novels about Elizabeth of York that focus more on her and Henry as a couple. Roberta Gellis has written one called The Dragon and the Rose (I got annoyed when she conflated three generations of Staffords into one Duke of Buckingham, but otherwise it looked pretty good, with three-dimensional characters that are often absent from WOTR novels). Brenda Honeyman has written one called Richmond and Elizabeth, and Margaret Campbell Barnes has one called The Tudor Rose that has an unusually spunky Elizabeth of York, though some of the historical details (Elizabeth having a friendship verging on romance with Edward Stafford, historically a child of five at the tme) are decidedly iffy. There's an even more obscure one called The Playing Card Queen by Wendy Miall.

[Volgadon]

You're right, Christina - it's amazing she hasn't had more written about her. She must have been trained from childhood to hate and fear everything Henry VII represented. It's very interesting that they named their first son Arthur, harking back to a Celtic hero figure who united Britain. I'm sure they were highly conscious of the symbolism of that. And then when he died ...

I'm not sure that they considered it Celtic symbolism. They liked to see themselves as the descendants of the Britons, even though of Saxon and Norman extraction. Celtic nationalism didn't really exist until the mid 1800s.

[Margaret]

Actually, the Tudors did have Welsh ancestry, which they liked to play up as giving them a symbolically better claim to the rule of all England and Wales. Henry VII's paternal grandfather, Owen Tudor, was Welsh. The Tudor kings' policies, of course, were not particularly pro-Welsh.

The Celts were perennially bedeviled by their disinclination to band together under unified leadership, but the Welsh did unify briefly in the face of the threat of English domination (as the Britons under some type of Arthur-like warlord had unified to some extent against the threat of Saxon domination after the Romans pulled out of Britain). During the 11th century, Gruffydd ap Llywelyn ruled all of Wales. Llywelyn the Last (the son of Llywelyn the Great) also ruled most of Wales, but struggled on the one hand with uprisings led by his brothers and on the other with Edward I's ultimately successful efforts to claim Wales for England. Owain Glyndwr led a rebellion against England in the 15th century which had temporary success, and led a united, independent Wales for a short time period. All of this made Arthur a potent figure, because of the legends portraying him as ruler of a unified Britain. The Winchester Round Table (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Winchester_-_Table_ronde_du_roi_Arthur.JPG) (which is undoubtedly not an historic "round table" of Arthur and his knights), was repainted during Henry VIII's rule to include a portrait of Henry.

[Volgadon]

What I meant is that Arthur wasn't considered a symbol of Welsh or Celtic nationalism.

[Kasthu]

As for anothr War of the Roses novel, there's also Daughter of Time. Not, strickyl speaking, fifteenth century, but a fun whodunit about what happened to the Princes in the Tower. Elizabeth Peters, when she wasn't writing about ancient Egyptian artifacts, also wrote a whodunit mystery featuring Richard, called The Murders of Richard III.

[Juniper]

I've finally got the "Wars of the Roses" page posted at my website: http://www.HistoricalNovels.info/Wars-of-the-Roses.html. Thanks to everyone here who suggested novels in this period - there were quite a few that had not previously been listed on the "Medieval" page. It's amazing to me how many novels have been written about Edward IV, Richard III, and their cohorts. I don't think there's another outpouring of novels focusing on one generation of royals until Henry VIII and his wives. It was an exceptionally dramatic time period, of course, with many interesting people to write about!

This list is just what I've been looking for! Thankyou :)

[Chatterbox]

Is there anyone out there who can give/can direct me to a place where I can get a sense of the subjects of Brenda Honeyman's novels? Some are easy enough to figure out (Elizabeth and Richmond by the title alone; The Warrior King is clearly Henry V, thanks to one amazon pic for that title) but most of them don't have reviews or summaries. The King's Tale? Edward the Warrior (which Edward? at least half of them were were warriors). All the King's Sons? At the King's Court? Golden Griffin? King's Minion?

On a positive note, I'm actually enjoying the first book in the Poesie Graeme-whoever trilogy much more than I expected to. The violent sex was waaay overkill, and I'm weary of the old gods resurfacing this way in late medieval fiction, but generally the writing is good and characters well done. Plot utterly implausible, of course. Henry VI and an illegitimate daughter? Balderdash.

[diamondlil]

I really disliked the first half of that book, but enjoyed the second half.

[boswellbaxter]

Is there anyone out there who can give/can direct me to a place where I can get a sense of the subjects of Brenda Honeyman's novels? Some are easy enough to figure out (Elizabeth and Richmond by the title alone; The Warrior King is clearly Henry V, thanks to one amazon pic for that title) but most of them don't have reviews or summaries. The King's Tale? Edward the Warrior (which Edward? at least half of them were were warriors). All the King's Sons? At the King's Court? Golden Griffin? King's Minion?

On a positive note, I'm actually enjoying the first book in the Poesie Graeme-whoever trilogy much more than I expected to. The violent sex was waaay overkill, and I'm weary of the old gods resurfacing this way in late medieval fiction, but generally the writing is good and characters well done. Plot utterly implausible, of course. Henry VI and an illegitimate daughter? Balderdash.

The King's Minions is about Edward II and Piers Gaveston. Its sequel, The Queen and Mortimer, is about Isabella and Roger Mortimer, as you might guess.

Oh, and Last of the Barons is about Warwick the Kingmaker. Richard by Grace of God and Richard Plantagenet are the same book, both about Richard III. To make matters even more complicated, some of Honeyman's books are listed under Brenda Clarke. (As you probably know, she's also Kate Sedley.)

[EC2]

On a positive note, I'm actually enjoying the first book in the Poesie Graeme-whoever trilogy much more than I expected to. The violent sex was waaay overkill, and I'm weary of the old gods resurfacing this way in late medieval fiction, but generally the writing is good and characters well done. Plot utterly implausible, of course. Henry VI and an illegitimate daughter? Balderdash.

I read book 2 in the series. Not for me I have to say.

I read Honeyman years and years and years and y.... you get the picture. Can't remember what I read of hers now either!

[Chatterbox]

Tks, BB! I actually didn't know she was Kate Sedley, though it makes sense given the time period that she's writing about in those mysteries.

Not that I would have wanted to have written Poesie's books -- just that I had expected them to be devoid of any historical accuracy or detail, more romance than history.

[MedievalBookworm]

I'm afraid to say the first Posie Graeme-Evans book hit the wall and I haven't picked the others up since. Didn't like the writing style, the sex was too much, and the romance felt ridiculous. I guess expectations make a huge difference because I definitely wasn't expecting what I got!

[robinbird79]

I have the first of the Posie G-E trilogy but haven't started on it yet...have others I want to read first.

[juditharnopp]

my second favourite book set in the Wars of the Roses (the first is the sunne in splendour) is Reay Tannahill's The Seventh Son. I found the character of Richard the third very solid and the whole story convincing. when i was at school i liked the very saintly portrayal of Richard in Loyalte me lie (author escapes me at the moment, was it somebody Edwards?). i read anything on the wars of the roses, just love it!


currently reading Flambard's Confession by Mariyan Durham

http://www.juditharnopp.com

[ejays17]

Have read SKP's The Sunne in Splendour and Jean Plady's The Reluctant Queen in quick succession, and was interested to compare/contrast the 2 novels (hearking back to school essays... :rolleyes:)

Of the 2, I preferred Sunne, of course it's a longer book, and can cover much more, but I thought that it was more - emotional isn't quite right, but I can't thik of a better term at the moment. With Queen, as it was written 1st-person POV, therre was lots of "and then Richard told me / I found out later", which pulled me out of the story. And I thought that Anne got very whiny & self-pitying at the end of the book as well, which annoyed me.
And in both books Edward was hero-worshipped to an amazing degree by Richard, but in the Plaidy he seemed to also acknowledge that Edward had many, many faults, whereas I didn't really take that from the Penman.
One of the bits of Queen that i did like was the friendship (of sorts) that happened between Anne & Margaret of Anjou - i thought that it humanised Margaret a bit. And that she loved her son because he was her son, not just that he should be King.

I would be more likely to re-read Sunne even if it's 4 times the lenght, it was a more satisfying read.
I've got The White Queen on the TBR pile, so another version of events to contrast...:)

[Misfit]

:eek::eek::eek:Credit for this goes to Karla over at GR and PBS. I think I may have to mooch this one,

http://cd.pbsstatic.com/l/17/1017/9780515131017.jpg

Caught between supporters of the Lancasters and the Yorks, David DAubere, Earl of Lynchburg, swears fealty to Henry VI. His loyalty to the throne is rewarded by marriage to the Earl of Cornwichs daughter and possession of all her landsmore than David could have hoped for.

Lady Riley Snowden, a Yorkist spy, is working at Cornwich castle, waiting for the opportunity to slay the master. When she tries to kill David she is caught and then sent to the dungeons. But when he meets his fragile and mentally challenged wife, David realizes Riley must bear the Cornwich heir.

The natural-born conflict between these two very strong characters boils over in hatred, mistrust and searing passion. There is no denying the fact that they are perfect in bed, but Riley has a mission to accomplish and David is torn between his loyalty to the Lancaster cause and his growing belief that the Yorkists are right about Queen Margarets dangerous plans for England.

BB, you want to go next?

PS, looked at the Amazon reviews and Klausner loved it.

[Tanzanite]

Oh dear - He looks like Lorenzo Lamas with bad hair extensions!

[Misfit]

Oh dear - He looks like Lorenzo Lamas with bad hair extensions!

:eek::eek:

Good point. This is definitely one for your covers blog. I just read this, especially as Harriet raved about it :D

[boswellbaxter]

:eek::eek::eek:Credit for this goes to Karla over at GR and PBS. I think I may have to mooch this one,


BB, you want to go next?

PS, looked at the Amazon reviews and Klausner loved it.

I don't know if my poor heart can take it. And I hope someone gives a shirt to this man by the time he gets to Towton.

Unfortunately, when I hear "Earl of Lynchburg" I think of Jerry Falwell.

[Misfit]

Heh, I could have sworn Klausner's reviews were more coherent back in the early days but no......

In 1460, the Earl of Cornwich learns his son died on the battlefield. Stunned by his loss, his Queen informs him that his daughter will marry the landless but loyal Earl David D'Aubere. Like all the lesser lords, David is caught between sides during the War of the Roses. However, his loyalty has paid off as he gains the hand of Lady Jeanette, Cornwich's daughter and an estate.
However, instead of a hero's welcome at Cornwich Castle, he finds a York supporter, Lady Riley Snowden poised to kill him, but he makes her his prisoner. When he meets his wife by proxy David finds the teenager to have the mind of an infant and a young girl's body. Her father insists David insure she become pregnant so that Cornwich blood flows in future generations as no other child exists. David offers Riley her freedom if she willingly gives birth to his child and leaves it with him. Neither one realized that initial attraction will flame into love.

HEART OF A WARRIOR is an exciting historical romance that centers on star-crossed lovers caught between the Lancaster-York war and dangerous conspiracies to control the throne. The story line blends history inside a powerful period piece filled with action and romance. David is a wonderful character who early on in the plot obtains his life goal only to learn the cost. Riley is heroic as she adheres to her beliefs even when love enters her heart. Betty Davidson provides sub-genre fans with a powerful romantic look at a pivotal moment in Anglo history.


Harriet Klausner

Another review talks about the author's imagery of 13C England.:confused::confused:

Another says the sex is so hot the pages will scorch you (Shelf of Shame here I come :D)

[Rowan]

Okay guys... put on your face masks while I dust this thread off a bit.

*coughs violently* :o

After many unsuccessful trips to bookstores, I finally managed to snag one of Susan's books. Yes, I know I could've ordered the doggone thing, but sometimes I'm too lazy to do that. I admit it. :p Fathers Day weekend I was house sitting for my cousin and my friend and I hit the Barnes & Noble after seeing a movie. There, I found The Stolen Crown and bought it.

I'm finally about to read it, but I realise I really have little knowledge beyond the basics of the Wars of the Roses. I've scanned this thread and picked up some good titles to read in addition to Susan's book, but they don't go back far enough for me. I know the Wars didn't start until Henry VI was in power, but I would like to read about Edward III as well since the origins seem to begin with him.

Can anyone recommend any good reading about Edward III?

(You can remove your face masks now. I think the dust has settled. :D)

[boswellbaxter]

Okay guys... put on your face masks while I dust this thread off a bit.

*coughs violently* :o

After many unsuccessful trips to bookstores, I finally managed to snag one of Susan's books. Yes, I know I could've ordered the doggone thing, but sometimes I'm too lazy to do that. I admit it. :p Fathers Day weekend I was house sitting for my cousin and my friend and I hit the Barnes & Noble after seeing a movie. There, I found The Stolen Crown and bought it.

I'm finally about to read it, but I realise I really have little knowledge beyond the basics of the Wars of the Roses. I've scanned this thread and picked up some good titles to read in addition to Susan's book, but they don't go back far enough for me. I know the Wars didn't start until Henry VI was in power, but I would like to read about Edward III as well since the origins seem to begin with him.

Can anyone recommend any good reading about Edward III?

(You can remove your face masks now. I think the dust has settled. :D)

Thanks for buying! Ian Mortimer's The Perfect King is good, as is W. M. Ormrod, The Reign of Edward III (though it's quite dry).

[Misfit]

Isn't E3 in Brian's Within the Fetterlock? It's been a few years....

[boswellbaxter]

Isn't E3 in Brian's Within the Fetterlock? It's been a few years....

I believe he's been dead a while when it opens; as I recall, an adult Richard II is king.

[annis]

I just came across mention of this 1970 novel which is a mystery based round the disappearance of the Princes in the Tower. Has anyone read it?

Jeremy Potter
A Trail of Blood (http://www.amazon.com/Trail-Blood-Jeremy-Potter/dp/B000OH4SK2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1291685153&sr=1-1)

The author apparently also wrote a biography of RIII called Good King Richard? (http://www.amazon.com/Good-King-Richard-Reputation-Biography/dp/0094688400)

[Libby]

I've read the non fiction book 'Good King Richard?' but not the fiction, so I can recommend one but not the other.