King Arthur's round table

[annis]

Just came across this piece about historian Chis Gidlow's claim to have discovered where King Arthur's famous round table was located -- in the ruins of a Roman ampitheatre in Chester. Interesting - we had a discussion elsewhere about the use of ampitheatres in post-Roman Britain as fortified sites of power, and Chester is near the Welsh border. Legend has often connected Arthur with Wales.
http://blogs.nationalgeographic.com/blogs/news/chiefeditor/2010/07/king-arthurs-round-table-located.html

[SarahWoodbury]

Chris Gildow states: "In the 6th Century, a monk named Gildas, who wrote the earliest account of Arthur's life, referred both to the City of the Legions and to a martyr's shrine within it," he explained. "That's the clincher. The discovery of the shrine within the amphitheater means that Chester was the site of Arthur's court--and his legendary Round Table."

What? One of the huge problems regarding the historical existence of Arthur was that GILDAS NEVER MENTIONS HIM!

The first mention of King Arthur's round table was in the Roman de Brut by a guy named Wace, who was working off Geoffrey of Monmouth's History of the Kings of Britain.

At the same time, the whole ampitheatre-as-round-table theory is interesting--and oddly credible.

[Madeleine]

I think this is another one of those discoveries, a bit like the recent Noah's Ark story, that comes up every so often. I've lost count of the number of supposed last resting places of the Holy Grail, and I suspect the Round Table is a similar case - where will it pop up next!

[Anna Elliott]

What Sarah said. Arthurian scholars for decades have tied themselves into knots trying to explain why Gildas never mentions Arthur by name. Arthurian research is one of those fields where nearly everyone writing a book has their own particular ax to grind and theory to prove--often at the expense of ignoring all evidence that doesn't fit their particular claim.

[EC2]

By finding a handle that the press can use, it's also a way of getting publicity via column inches. You get so many dubious articles like this nowadays.

[Michy]

I suspect the Round Table is a similar case - where will it pop up next!

Here in California, perhaps? :p:D

[SarahWoodbury]

Oooh! Oregon! By some amazing series of events, Arthur actually sailed to the New World and back and that's why none of the battles he fought are found on the map of Britain!

Seriously, it occured to me that the 'historian' is skating over his real opinion that "King Arthur" is actually Cuneglas of Din-Arth, against whom Gildas rails at length. Still has nothing to do with the round table, however. And wouldn't sell as many papers.

[Anna Elliott]

Also, it's not a 'new' theory that Arthur may have been Cuneglas of Din Arth (or Cynlas of Rhos or Cynlas Goch as he's also known). Whatever you think of the theory, you can read an extensive argument for it here (http://www.angelfire.com/md/devere/urse.html), from an author who's written a book on the subject.

[Michy]

Here in California, perhaps? :p:D

Oooh! Oregon! By some amazing series of events, Arthur actually sailed to the New World and back and that's why none of the battles he fought are found on the map of Britain!



But here in California we actually have a beautiful place called Avalon, and it's even on an island! I'm sure the Round Table and Holy Grail and Excalibur and who knows what else will show up in an antique shop there one of these days. :)

[Ariadne]

Earlier this week I took a call at the reference desk from a woman who wanted to know if we had any maps of Avalon, because that's where her ancestors came from. And here I could have pointed her to California, if only I'd known. If she ever calls back, I'll do that.

[Michy]

I've never been there, but I hear it's actually quite a pretty place. It's on Santa Catalina Island, not far off the coast from Los Angeles. The company I'm employed with does work there, which is what made it pop into my head today!

That's pretty funny about someone saying their ancestors came from Avalon and wanting a map. I guess when you work with the general public you run across all types, huh? :p

What did you say to her, by the way? Just curious as to how you'd handle someone like that.....

[Ariadne]

For all I know, she's right. This woman calls us every few weeks with an equally outlandish question so we're used to her. I explained how I found Avalon in a reference book and read her the definition, that it was a legendary island, etc. To which she responded "You mean it's not real? Hmm. Well, maybe I'm not real." Okay then.

[Michy]

That is hilarious! I guess people like that ensure that your job never gets dull!

[annis]

Posted by Ariadne
To which she responded "You mean it's not real? Hmm. Well, maybe I'm not real." Okay then.

Lol! Not for real, maybe. Amazing how cranks and people with mental illness issues automatically gravitate towards libraries :)

[Michy]

Perhaps because it's a free space - ? (as in, doesn't cost anything). I was at a library in Long Beach a year or so ago, and it was a gathering place for homeless people. There were a huge number of them on the grounds outside, and inside the library at the entrance they had a sign listing all their rules. I can't remember what they were, only that they were quite obviously aimed at the homeless. The homeless here don't seem to gravitate to the libraries, so maybe it's only in certain places.

[annis]

InI library where I work we get a large number of latch-key kids, the elderly and unemployed, largely because ,as you say, the library is a warm, relatively safe, comfortable and free space. I like to think it's also the friendly staff, but that might be wishful thinking :). The long term unemployed do come with a few issues- lack of hygiene- unwashed clothing and bodies is particularly unattractive on a wet day --and drug/alcohol dependency. Not that long ago I had to quietly call the local community policeman to remove a very drunk man who was upsetting customers and loudly insisting to me that he was a truck! Contrary to popular belief, work in a library is rarely boring.

[Ariadne]

Ugh, Annis, I'm glad I don't have to deal with many drunks!

We don't get many oddball characters in person at my library (although some of the faculty, now retired, have been pretty eccentric) though there is the occasional odd phone call like the one I described.

[Michy]

I like to think it's also the friendly staff, but that might be wishful thinking :).

This is something that I often find puzzling. That is, in the old days when librarians had to do everything for their patrons, they seemed to be friendlier. Now that libraries are increasingly self-service, when I do have to ask a librarian for assistance with something that's supposed to be self-serve they seem annoyed. Not all of them, of course, but quite a few.

I can see how the library would have a huge attraction for the very young and very old -- I could see myself hanging out there someday when I don't have to go to work every day! For one thing you don't have to buy anything -- Starbucks is a great place to hang out, but I don't feel comfortable going someplace like that if I'm not going buy something. And they usually play the music a bit too loud for enjoyable reading. :)

The newest library branch in my city is a big, beautiful space with a huge reading room -- no talking allowed. For a long time they didn't even allow computers in there, but they've now eased up on that. I hardly go there because it isn't close to my house. But when I was in college and wanted out of the house but needed a nice, quiet place to study I spent a lot of time there!

[SarahWoodbury]

We live in a little town, which might make the library more homey, but instead, for the first 7 years we were here, it was peopled with grumpy librarians with identical frown lines around their mouths. The only poster on the wall in the children's section was a giant photo of a grumpy librarian from the 1950's! I kid you not!

We got a new librarian 2 years ago and her attempts at hauling the library into the 21st century were initially met with kicking and screaming by the staff, but things seem to be better. We actually have computers now (thanks to he Bill and Melinda Gates foundation) and more new books. They redid the carpet from baby-poop yellow to brown and blue tones and got white flourescent lighting instead of yellow. Little things can make such a huge difference in how much time you want to stay there.

[annis]

In a small rural community like ours, the library plays quite a large unacknowledged social role- information centre for tourists, drop-in centre, a place where kids can come after-school and the elderly sit down with a newspaper and maybe have their only daily contact with another person. We know many of our patrons personally, and there is a really nice atmosphere. We're often to be found printing off pictures for kids to colour in, or helping someone write a CV, or set up a Facebook account. And apart from sorting out kids fighting over computers, we rarely have to channel the grumpy dragon librarian :)

[Michy]

Maybe that's why in my mind librarians were nicer in the "good old days;" because my good old days were spent growing up in very rural areas with dinky little libraries with just one or two librarians running the place. They weren't overly friendly, but they certainly weren't grumpy or irritable. But they didn't have to deal with all the issues that big city librarians have to deal with. :)

[annis]

An interesting follow-up article posted by Keith FitzpatrIck-Matthews on the Bad Archaeology blog, discussing the theories expounded in the initial newspaper articles about the King Arthur's Round Table story.

http://badarchaeology.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/king-arthur’s-round-table-discovered-in-chester/

Chris Gidlow's 10 Top Clues, mentioned in the blog post, can be read here:
http://heritage-key.com/blogs/christopher-gidlow/top-10-archaeological-clues-real-king-arthur

[SarahWoodbury]

And the exchange of comments at the end of the article by both men is well worth reading!