The Greatest Knight/The Scarlet Lion

[diamondlil]

Here's a thread to discuss Elizabeth Chadwick's books about William Marshal.

[Ash]

I am reading Greatest Knight, and enjoying it very much. What should I read next by her?

[diamondlil]

Already answered this in another thread, but I would read The Scarlet Lion, and then A Place Beyond Courage, and then go back to her earlier books.

[Spitfire]

I am not into The Greatest Knight that far yet. Am enjoying though! Will post my final views when I finish.

[pat]

I loved The Greatest Knight and Place Beyone Courage, not read the Scarlet Lion yet...Loved those two though!

[Ash]

Im confused. I just posted about Greatest Knight in another thread in this section and then saw this thread. Why are there two threads for the same book? Am I missing something? And should I post the same thing in both?

[EC2]

It's because there's a thread for Elizabeth Chadwick the author on top of the author threads at the moment.If another forum member posts about Philippa Gregory for example, then this heading will disappear from the head of the thread. It's the same with the other posting. It's for reviews. So if someone posts another review under the A-F reviews, The Greatest Knight will disappear. It's just coincidence - but confusing for a minute :cool:

[Madeleine]

I've just read The Greatest Knight and thoroughly enjoyed it. I also have The Scarlet Lion, but will probably read A Place Beyond Courage first when the pb comes out here in October, as I'm fascinated by John!

[EC2]

I've just read The Greatest Knight and thoroughly enjoyed it. I also have The Scarlet Lion, but will probably read A Place Beyond Courage first when the pb comes out here in October, as I'm fascinated by John!

Me too! I thought he was going to be interesting to write about - not least because of what happened at Wherwell Abbey and that infamous scene at Newbury. I didn't quite realise what an adventure it was going to be and the places it would take me. (To have someone you're writing about (who died 800 years ago) throwing things at you to gain your attention because he feels you're not quite doing him justice re a particular scene is an extraordinary experience)! I'm going to be blogging nearer publication date about perhaps the most extraordinary experience of all.

[Ash]

Errgg. My shipment of Scarlet Lion is not going to arrive from Canada till mid October. There's got to be a better way to get this book. Think I'll try ebay (and no, my library doesn't have it)

[Madeleine]

Me too! I thought he was going to be interesting to write about - not least because of what happened at Wherwell Abbey and that infamous scene at Newbury. I didn't quite realise what an adventure it was going to be and the places it would take me. (To have someone you're writing about (who died 800 years ago) throwing things at you to gain your attention because he feels you're not quite doing him justice re a particular scene is an extraordinary experience)! I'm going to be blogging nearer publication date about perhaps the most extraordinary experience of all.

Can't wait!

[alice]

Just a quick note of praise for EC. I just wanted to say that I bought a few of her titles for the School Library recently, (although not TGK yet, but I will be getting it), mainly for the older students and the staff. I didn't think the younger pupils would go for them. However, one of our younger girls, (Yr 8) took one out, (Shadows and Strongholds), which is not a thin book by any means. She brought it back a couple of days later, having devoured it, and took out another one. She absolutely loved it. I love to see the students really enjoying their books, and she did, so thanks, Elizabeth. Keep up the good work. :)

[EC2]

Thanks Alice. I do get a lot of reader mail from teenagers - although the reader demographic does go across the board and the sexes. Being as I'm heading well into middle age:eek::eek: it's good to know that the books are appealing to youngsters!

[nona]

ok my husband is literally finishing TGK as I type, he wants to know what book follows TGK or is there another William Marshall book of EC he can read?, I haven't read Scarlet Lion or Place beyond courage and couldn't remember if they followed up the Greatest Knight.

[Ash]

From what I understand, her new book, Beyond Courage is the sequel. Scarlet Lion is about his father

[nona]

actually I just looked it up and it is the other way around, i just ordered Scarlet Lion for him and can you believe I could only find one in the US for 25 bucks! but worth every penny for him and APBC start at $50. I need another job just to support not just my but our additiction, lol.

[Ash]

Oh believe me, I know. I couldn't find one here for under $30. I ordered one from Canada that would have been $15 but canceled it when I realized it wouldn't get here for 6 weeks or more. Ended up buying one on Ebay from Britain for about the same price. Im really surprised that you can't find decent copies (or any copies) of the book here. Eliz, any ideas why? Were the books never printed in the US?

[Vanessa]

How about the Book Depository (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/WEBSITE/WWW/WEBPAGES/search.php?key=elizabeth+chadwick&by=author&Button1.x=20&Button1.y=9)? Free postage and packing worldwide (to most places).

[EC2]

ok my husband is literally finishing TGK as I type, he wants to know what book follows TGK or is there another William Marshall book of EC he can read?, I haven't read Scarlet Lion or Place beyond courage and couldn't remember if they followed up the Greatest Knight.

Nona - so glad your husband enjoyed TGK! If he'd hated it, it might have stalled his embryo reading career and I'd have had to go and hide!
The Scarlet Lion does follow on from TGK and I think perhaps The Book Depository might have it at a reasonable price. A Place Beyond Courage is out in paperback 16th October and yes, it's a stand alone novel about William's father. It does prequel the other two, but it is also detached from them.
TGK and Lords of the White Castle have both been picked up by a USA publisher to be published in paperback and electronic format next fall - no fixed dates as yet, but the deal has been agreed. If they take off, then they're interested in the rest of the list - so depending how things go, obtaining the books in the USA is going to become easier. I've been in this industry a while now and I take nothing for granted!
I wonder if your husband would like Bernard Cornwell's books? Or some of Sharon Penman's now you've broken the ice?:)

[JaneConsumer]

TGK and Lords of the White Castle have both been picked up by a USA publisher to be published in paperback and electronic format next fall

Yipee! (It's about time.) :)

[Misfit]

For those who might be going to Canada and/or have friends or family that travel there you might want to see what's available at the bookstores there. I know when I was in Vancouver BC in 2006 EC's books were readily available on the shelves at Chapters (http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/) -- except for TGK which was the one I was looking for. They said they could bring it in for will call though. Also abebooks and alibrus is worth checking out. There seem to be some US sellers bringing in the books from the UK. You pay a shipping charge, but then you don't get hit with the exchange rate either.

All I can say is I'm glad I was greedy and bought every EC book I could get my hands on back in 2006. It appears I could make a tidy profit if not for the fact that there's no way in h*** I'd part with them. :):)

[Ash]

VAnessa, someone else recommended that site to me and for some reason I never bookmarked it. I have now, thanks!

[LCW]

Misfit, which site did you preorder Time of Singing from? The only place I can find it the UK Amazon site. Are there any others??

[Misfit]

I think only Amazon UK and CA have it listed that I've seen, haven't checked the book depository yet.

[nona]

my mother in law who reads nothing cookbooks and those true crime books about sadistic murderers and so forth by authors like Anne Rule is going to read the Greatest Knight and Scarlet Lion. Ronnie talks about them non stop now and has her interested in them so we'll see how she likes 'em. If so EC you have won over two of the most un-likely but true fans.

[eclecticreader10]

I've always wanted to read her books, but availability in USA is difficult. If I want one I'm going to have to order it. I think I'll try the link for The Book Depository that Vanessa posted. Who has bought from them? are they reputable? The big question is which book do I start with? With so many to choose from it's overwhelming.

[Ariadne]

I buy from Book Depository semi-regularly. They're reputable, and it's amazing how fast the books arrive - within about a week to the USA. I've bought all of EC's non-US releases that way (Time of Singing is still in my basket) as well as other historicals like Margit Sandemo's Ice People series.

When I was in Toronto this past summer, I was seriously tempted by Chapters but didn't end up buying much there. With the free postage, Book Depository was cheaper in most cases.

[diamondlil]

I use them pretty regularly as well and have never had any issues with them.

[Leyland]

I ordered The Time of Singing from the Book Depository and it came within the week in perfectly new condition. I'll definitely order from them in the future when needed. I haven't got The Scarlet Lion, so I'll probably order it from TBD sometime soon.

[eclecticreader10]

which book should I start with?

[EC2]

which book should I start with?

I'll leave it to others to suggest that one! My earlier ones are slightly more romantic with imaginary protagonists. The later ones are about actual historical characters and tell their life stories.
The Greatest Knight will be available in the USA around this time next year and also Lords of the White Castle. If sales are good then the rest will gradually be rolled out too.

[diamondlil]

There is some discussion at the beginning of this thread about where to start with ECs books.

[nona]

I started with The Winter Mantle, Lords of White Castle (I should have read Shadows and Strongholds first), The Conquest, the Champion, The Greatest Knight, Wild Hunt then Falcons of Montrabard and the last EC book I read was Shadows and Strongholds. I just oredered Shields of Pride, under $15 at amazon, couldn't pass up.

[Misfit]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41H4XfYCskL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

Just stumbled across this pic for the audio CD of The Greatest Knight.

[EC2]

:eek::eek::eek: That is just soooo incredibly bad Misfit. You really don't want to see it in the flesh though because it's even worse! Who does these jackets for a living?

[Misfit]

I'm guessing you had no control over that one? What's funny is I wasn't in the book CD section, just looking at one of Hollick's books and it popped up in the you might also like.....

[EC2]

I'm guessing you had no control over that one? What's funny is I wasn't in the book CD section, just looking at one of Hollick's books and it popped up in the you might also like.....

No control at all. I have a consultation say in my UK covers, but it's only that - consultation. Foreign rights and audio are Forrest Gump's box of chocolates - you never know what you're going to get!

[Vanessa]

Oh, gosh, it looks as if it would be better suited to a Merlin book, doesn't it?! Or a guide to fencing!! Hey, and he even looks as if he's a bit of a contortionist looking at how his cloak or whatever it is is splayed out. LOL. Perhaps it's to do with the money side of things, audiobooks being quite expensive, and trying to keep the costs down for the buyer?

[Amanda]

Oh...I didn't read it properly one first sight. Looked at the picture and thought it was for The First Knight!

[Madeleine]

Yes I thought it would be more suited to Merlin too!

[MLS859]

I'm just about to finish THE GREATEST KNIGHT -- figured I'd read something else, then come back to THE SCARLET LION (that's my usual MO -- read something historical, then read something not historical -- though I seldom actually break out of the pattern). Anyway, not going to be able to do that this time -- must continue on immediately. Very enjoyable, EC!!

Lynn

[EC2]

I'm just about to finish THE GREATEST KNIGHT -- figured I'd read something else, then come back to THE SCARLET LION (that's my usual MO -- read something historical, then read something not historical -- though I seldom actually break out of the pattern). Anyway, not going to be able to do that this time -- must continue on immediately. Very enjoyable, EC!!

Lynn

Thanks Lynn :D
I guess when you add the pages up of TGK and TSL they're only about as long as one Sharon Kay Penman, so you could tell yourself it's one book. It would have been if my publishers had allowed me to get away with it!!!!

[MLS859]

I started THE SCARLET LION and it's seamless -- indeed like one book!

But, you know, sometimes those bigger books are so heavy, they make a lot of noise when they hit the floor (because I tend to fall asleep when I'm reading at night!!). And they also hurt when you drop them on your foot!:D

Lynn

[nona]

this is horrible considering I'm a huge Chadwick fan, I've read The Greatest Knight two years ago bought The Scarlet Lion a year ago and still I've not read it. So I plan on re-reading The Greatest Knight then Scarlet Lion right after in a few weeks, I loaned a few from library that are demanding my attention at the moment. My husband has red both and cried like a baby so I can't wait!

[Libby]

Yes, I've just finished The Scarlet Lion and was reduced to tears towards the end as well.

What an amazing man William Marshall was.

[nona]

I'm currently reading Scarlet Lion, is it true that french soldiers blinded Arthur and so forth?

[EC2]

I'm currently reading Scarlet Lion, is it true that french soldiers blinded Arthur and so forth?

There's no answer to that one Nona, history doesn't tell us, but I've not gone into the realms of fantasy, only speculation based on Akashic Record reading. It is quite, quite possible. As to John and the deed itself - not only possible, but highly probable, but if you ask what I believe, I think that he had no choice.

[nona]

I understand power and politics but I beleive in fairness as well, two grown men doing that to a boy is just wrong. What I've read of John it doesn't surprise me too much but I never really cared for him, much like Eleanor I liked Richard better.

[EC2]

I understand power and politics but I beleive in fairness as well, two grown men doing that to a boy is just wrong. What I've read of John it doesn't surprise me too much but I never really cared for him, much like Eleanor I liked Richard better.

Long ago I used to think 'bad King John' Then I read a couple of revisionist histories and novels and began to think 'Okay, this guy has been much maligned by history.' Then I started researching him in depth for my own novels and thought 'Whoah, this is one scary and not very pleasant person.' I think W. L. Warren sums him up very well. He says that John had 'the mental abilities of a great king, but the inclinations of a petty tyrant.' Since writing The Scarlet Lion I've done more research on John and it's only confirmed my impressions. I know medieval kings did some pretty nasty stuff, but with John it was as much personal as policy.

[nona]

from what I've read he seemed to have the youngest sibling disease in the worst way, meaning as soon as he realized he had power he took it to extreme and used it for personal revenge and that messes with your mind after so long, you become perinoid and the list goes on. And whats up with his sexual, I don't know what you'ld call them but a girl barely hit puberity granted I knew they married very young and consumated when the time was right but John doesn't seem to know how to wait for anything and poor Ysabel, I'ld be scared too.

[MLS859]

I finished THE SCARLET LION a few weeks ago -- meant to post before this -- but I have to say that I actually cried at the end. I don't know when I've cried while reading a book -- nothing about the books, I'm just not a reader/crier! But, this one really got to me.

[EC2]

I finished THE SCARLET LION a few weeks ago -- meant to post before this -- but I have to say that I actually cried at the end. I don't know when I've cried while reading a book -- nothing about the books, I'm just not a reader/crier! But, this one really got to me.

Lynn, I don't know whether I should take a bow or not for making people weep - LOL! I'm in the middle of a library tour at the moment and a reader mentioned to me that she'd howled her sock off over TSL.
Just back from a talk at Shrewsbury Library which dates to the early 15thC in parts. The librarian showed me a leather shoe they'd found while rennovating - belonging to a small Tudor child. That in itself brought a lump to my throat, just the tininess of it!

[MLS859]

You should take a bow -- I think causing a reader to have emotion -- happy or sad -- is a compliment (at least from me, it is!!) I think the shoe would have gotten to me, too.

Lynn

[nona]

*applauds* you've done it yet again EC you've recked havoc on my emotions! That is a compliment for sure, to move someone with words on paper on a man long deceased yet able to achieve things most modern men could not.

[wealcere]

I know I'm a bit behind with this post, but like everyone else here, I loved the TGK and TSL, I found myself getting so angry with King John and found the Marshalls diplomacy amazing and at times, even frustrating. I can see how the young William got so enraged with his father.
Now.............is there a film epic on the horizon? Don't all cringe, I know it would be nowhere near as good as the books, but it would introduce William Marshall to a lot of people who would never have heard of him or his amazing story, especially the younger generation.
Obviously the ideal candidate for the lead role err........me? A bit short maybe, specky and can't do a very good French accent, but I'm handy to get to Pembroke castle. First refusal for the part of Isabel de Clare would have to go to EC.
I would recommend David Crouchs' William Marshall, Knighthood, War and Chivalry, 1147-1219, as in the select bibliography of TSL to found out more about this amazing man.
It is these books that have really sent me on to this site, I needed to be with like minded people and hence came across this site on my quest for medievel fans.

[EC2]

I know I'm a bit behind with this post, but like everyone else here, I loved the TGK and TSL, I found myself getting so angry with King John and found the Marshalls diplomacy amazing and at times, even frustrating. I can see how the young William got so enraged with his father.
Now.............is there a film epic on the horizon? Don't all cringe, I know it would be nowhere near as good as the books, but it would introduce William Marshall to a lot of people who would never have heard of him or his amazing story, especially the younger generation.
Obviously the ideal candidate for the lead role err........me? A bit short maybe, specky and can't do a very good French accent, but I'm handy to get to Pembroke castle. First refusal for the part of Isabel de Clare would have to go to EC.
I would recommend David Crouchs' William Marshall, Knighthood, War and Chivalry, 1147-1219, as in the select bibliography of TSL to found out more about this amazing man.
It is these books that have really sent me on to this site, I needed to be with like minded people and hence came across this site on my quest for medievel fans.


Thanks Wealcere!
Yes, I don't know how the Marshal did it re keeping his cool, but keep it he did. Whether or not he did a lot of swearing in private is another matter!
I need to do a moviemaker short of TGK's USA publication in September, so I reckon we could star in it with lots of blurred shots and turned backs - LOL!!!

[Tanzanite]

Thanks Wealcere!
Yes, I don't know how the Marshal did it re keeping his cool, but keep it he did. Whether or not he did a lot of swearing in private is another matter!
I need to do a moviemaker short of TGK's USA publication in September, so I reckon we could star in it with lots of blurred shots and turned backs - LOL!!!

You could always cut off your head!:D:D

[EC2]

You could always cut off your head!:D:D

LOL, LOL! That so reminds me actually. I gave a talk at Leominster library last night where they are having a historical fiction promo. To dress up the library to reflect this, they had a shop's dummy dressed up in an early 15thC velvet gown. But no head.... or rather the head was on a chair at the side of the dummy, modeling one of those padded cow-horn wimples!!! I took a photo, so when I transfer from camera to PC, I'll post it.

[ejays17]

I've just finished The Scarlet Lion tonight, and have had to search the house for tissues!:p

There aren't a lot of books which will do that to me (Here Be Dragons by SKP is guaranteed to every time :o), so I wanted to say thanks for such a beautifully written book about an amazing person.
I also really enjoyed The Greatest Knight as well, but it didn't affect me in the same way - of course, it didn't end with a death scene... ;)
Am looking forward to whichever of the books I start on next - I've got about 6 piled up on my TBR pile at the moment, but I'm also wanting to ration them a bit.

[EC2]

Glad you enjoyed it Ejays17 - thank you! :)
I feel William is still very much around, even if not in the flesh, and he has guest appearances in The Time of singing and the current Work in Progress, so it's not quite farewell yet :) But yes, what a man. I always try and visit him when I go to London. My UK publisher has recently moved offices to the Embankmeht and is now within five minute's walk of the Temple Church, so it's rather convenient!

[Susan]

Oh my and wow! I just finished The Greatest Knight, and EC, you made me adore William Marshal! Thank you for the gift of making this man who lived 900 years ago come alive. I am so very glad that I have had the honor of standing before his effigy at the Temple Church. I am so pleased that you are continuing his family's saga in your work in progress. Sometime soon I will most definitely fit The Scarlet Knight into my reading.

[EC2]

Susan thanks - glad you enjoyed the novel.
I call writing his story my 'Peter Jackson' moment now. PJ says he used to lie in bed and say to his wife 'Someone ought to film Lord of the Rings,' and he eventually realised that it might have to be himself. I kept waiting for someone to write about William Marshal full on, and finally decided that perhaps I should stop thinking and do.
Whenever I go to London, I try to drop in at the Temple Church and pay my respects. My publishers have moved offices recently and they are now only 10 minutes walk from the Temple Church, so even if the interior isn't open, I always go there, even if it's only to put my hand on the door or the wall. There are copies of the effigies in the V&A Museum too.

[Susan]

EC, I am very glad that you took up the challenge of telling William Marshal's story. I was doing a little genealogical research and he does have some famous descendants through his daughters. I saw that Robert the Bruce was among them and this means that the current British royal family and most other European royal families are among his descendants.

[EC2]

And Anne Boleyn and Jane Seymour, so in part he's responsible for Elizabeth I!
Also the Stuarts descend from one of the Marshal lines. George Washington too so I understand. There's a very telling line in the Histoire de Guillaume le Mareschal - almost like a premonition, even though it was written before any of his sons died.
'There are five of my daughters. If all of them hold together, so it please God, it could well be that great good could come of it.'

[Susan]

Perhaps one of my summer projects will be to work on the genealogy of William Marshal!

[Ash]

I saw that Robert the Bruce was among them and this means that the current British royal family and most other European royal families are among his descendants.

I remember first reading about Victoria and her descendants, how connected the whole of Europe was at that time. Seems like that happened much earlier than I suspected

[diamondlil]

I remember watching a TV series not all that long ago which talked about a Danish King Christian being the father in law of Europe because all of his daughters were married into various royal families.

[Susan]

I remember watching a TV series not all that long ago which talked about a Danish King Christian being the father in law of Europe because all of his daughters were married into various royal families.

Yes, that was an excellent series and the king would be King Christian IX of Denmark. He was called "the father-in-law of Europe" and was a contemporary of Queen Victoria. In fact, his eldest daughter Alexandra married Victoria's eldest son and heir Edward VII. I wouldn't be surprised if King Christian was a descendant of William Marshal!

Christian IX's children were:
Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark, later Frederick VIII of Denmark, married Princess Lovisa of Sweden
Princess Alexandra of Denmark, later the consort of Edward VII of the United Kingdom
Prince Vilhelm, later King George I of Greece, married Grand Duchess Olga Konstantinova of Russia
Princess Dagmar of Denmark, later the consort of Tsar Alexander III of Russia
Princess Thyra of Denmark, later consort of Ernst August of Hanover, 3rd Duke of Cumberland
Prince Valdemar of Denmark, married Princess Marie de Orleáns–Bourbon

Christian’s grandsons included:
Tsar Nicholas II of Russia
King Constantine I of Greece
King George V of the United Kingdom
King Christian X of Denmark
King Haakon VII of Norway

Both Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip are his descendants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_IX_of_Denmark

Descendants of King Christian IX of Denmark
http://www.angelfire.com/in/heinbruins/Christian9.html

[Susan]

This website has descendants of William Marshal for six generations. You can click on the descendants to find out more about them and also click on their descendants' tab to list their descendants.
http://www.genealogics.org/descend.php?personID=I00028078&tree=LEO

[Em]

Hiya,:)

This is my first posting here, and would like to thank EC for taking me on the most wonderful journey with the Greatest Knight and The Scarlet Lion.

Thanks EC for rendering me a jibbering wreck;) I have never enjoyed reading two books so much in my life.

You are a star!!

Having to wait until December to be enthralled again.

Take Care

Emxx:D

[EC2]

Thanks Em, and welcome to the forum.
Sorry about the 'jibbering wreckedness'!:D
The December issue is one of my earlier novels, so slightly different in feel to the Marshal ones i.e. the lead players are imaginary. It was fun revisiting it last year to edit. It had been a while since I'd looked at it and I couldn't remember what happened!

[sharon]

Hi, everyone.
I wanted to spread the good news for those who have not heard. September 1st is the American pub. date for Elizabeth's The Greatest Knight. We can thank Sourcebooks for realizing she has so many American fans.
Sharon

[JaneConsumer]

It's about time. Kudos!

[Ludmilla]

My local bookstore must have put it out early. I was in there buying something else on Saturday and it was on the new paperback table, so of course added it to my pile of purchases. :)

[Misfit]

Good news for US readers, EC's books are hard to come by here. Hope to see lots of new fans.

[EC2]

Thanks chaps. :o

Also to say while I'm here and Sharon having dropped in, I should be hosting an interview with Sharon on my blog soonish - like in the next couple of weeks. I'm really looking forward to what she's going to say re her work!

[consterdine]

I started The Greatest Knight on monday and will finish it tonight. I've read it in every spare moment I've had. What a great read it is! I recommend EC to anyone who wants this era of history brought to life or who loves a rollicking good read.

The real pleasure for me is that it puts flesh on the bones of historical figures that all too often seem very dry and one dimensional in standard historical texts.

The reign of Henry II is one of the strangest times in British history and Eleanor is a figure that has been too long in the shadows. A strong, 'modern' matriarch with style, a beating heart and a joy de vivre. Why aren't we told that these women existed?

As for the writing, the character of William Marshal is beautifully crafted through his good fortune, misfortunes and courtly sophistication. That this medieval man is so in touch with his feminine side may be a contemporary twist but it enables an inspiring, intriguing and almost irresistable character to emerge.

Overall the writing transports the reader and weaves a wondrous world that you can immerse yourself in. Thank you Elizabeth for a beautifully told story.

[Ash]

The reign of Henry II is one of the strangest times in British history and Eleanor is a figure that has been too long in the shadows. A strong, 'modern' matriarch with style, a beating heart and a joy de vivre. Why aren't we told that these women existed?
.


Interested why you'd think the first, and wondering if Eleanor has been in the shadows. Seems like of all the non Tudor queens written about, she gets quite a bit of press. As to your last question - its like anything else, often what we don't know is something we just discover ourselves, and sometimes thats half the fun!

[consterdine]

Interested why you'd think the first

If by this you mean, Why do I think the reign of Henry II was amazing I'd say it's because he had 4 feuding sons and, remarkably(?), crowned one of them King while he was still King. Add the Anarchic years preceding him and then Eleanor into the mix and I think it gets quite interesting :-)

You're right that finding stuff out for yourself is half the fun but as a father of a 7 year old girl I'm constantly looking for strong felmale figures and role models that will allow her to feel the freedom and self-determination that is rightly hers, just, at the start of C21!

[Tanzanite]

You're right that finding stuff out for yourself is half the fun but as a father of a 7 year old girl I'm constantly looking for strong felmale figures and role models that will allow her to feel the freedom and self-determination that is rightly hers, just, at the start of C21!

At the risk of going off -topic, the best role models to provide this are you and her mother and in particular in the way that you treat your daughter as she grows up as well as how you treat the other women in your life. If she sees that the man she admires and loves the most treats her and women in general with respect and the belief that they are in charge of their own lives, she will grow up believing it and will accept nothing less from anyone, including potential boyfriends or husbands.

[consterdine]

At the risk of going off -topic, the best role models to provide this are you and her mother and in particular in the way that you treat your daughter as she grows up as well as how you treat the other women in your life. If she sees that the man she admires and loves the most treats her and women in general with respect and the belief that they are in charge of their own lives, she will grow up believing it and will accept nothing less from anyone, including potential boyfriends or husbands.

I coulbn't agree more. Someone once said that "the greatest gift a father can give to his children is to love their mother"

[EC2]

AThat this medieval man is so in touch with his feminine side may be a contemporary twist but it enables an inspiring, intriguing and almost irresistable character to emerge.

Overall the writing transports the reader and weaves a wondrous world that you can immerse yourself in. Thank you Elizabeth for a beautifully told story.

Thank you Consterdine,:)
When I began writing The Greatest Knight, I was only touching the tip of the iceberg re William Marshal and as I've written more about him and his family, I've grown to know him better. I do think he was more in touch with his feminine side - LOL - than some of his contemporaries in that his wife had a say in his counsels; she wasn't excluded from 'man' business. He was a close friend of Eleanor of Aquitaine throughout her life and I think in no small part she advanced his career - and if Eleanor liked him, then it's a good indicator. There are all sorts of little scraps and hints along his life path that on their own wouldn't amount to a hill of beans, but when you put them together, they build into a body of evidence for him being respectful, fair-minded and generous towards women of his own rank certainly. He was still very much a man of his time though. Nothing stood in the way of him marrying off his daughters to suit his political purposes, and even if Isabelle had her say, his word was the final call. She might not have wanted to give up their sons to King John, but William's will prevailed.
Now look, you've gone and got me started on William Marshal! The rational part is now dragging the fangirl away and back to what she should to be doing!

[Misfit]

I noticed a couple of blog posts today that might be of interest,

At A Reader's Respite (http://historicaltapestry.blogspot.com/2009/08/interview-with-elizabeth-chadwick.html) EC is guest poster and there's a giveaway for two copies of The Greatest Knight.

And at Historical Tapestry (http://historicaltapestry.blogspot.com/2009/08/interview-with-elizabeth-chadwick.html) there's an interview with EC.

[diamondlil]

There are a number of giveaways happening at the moment around blogland. We are trying to spotlight them at HT, but I might miss some. In the next couple of days we will have the blog tour list up and there may be giveaways at most of those blogs.

[consterdine]

Thanks EC. I've just finished The Scarlet Lion and I'm reeling. Totally fantastic read. Exhilarating.

[annis]

Margaret has just posted a review of "Scarlet Lion", and an interview with EC at her Historical Novels Info website

http://www.historicalnovels.info/historical-novels-blog.html

[Misfit]

Michele at A Reader's Respite is giving away both of these books on her blog. Details here, http://readersrespite.blogspot.com/2010/03/homerun-for-sourcebooks.html

[Madeleine]

Well it was nice to see the Marshal getting a name-check in the mini-quiz in our paper today, the question is "who was England's "the greatest knight" who served as regent during Henry III's early reign"?

[Misfit]

As I understand it, Sourcebooks is having a book promotion this weekend, and among the Kindle freebies is The Greatest Knight.

[Mythica]

As I understand it, Sourcebooks is having a book promotion this weekend, and among the Kindle freebies is The Greatest Knight.

Yep, and on Nook:
http://www.amazon.com/Greatest-Knight-ebook/dp/B003M69P96/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1296927773&sr=8-2
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Greatest-Knight/Elizabeth-Chadwick/e/9781402228643/?itm=1&USRI=greatest+knight

I've already grabbed it, though I don't know when I'll get around to reading it. I've heard very good things about it.

[M'lady]

William Marshall is my favourite Elizabeth Chadwick character and led me to research the real man. Is it possible to fall in love with someone who lived 800 years ago? I was so sad at the end of Scarlet Lion but then I read A Place Beyond Courage and he was a boy again! :D

But my gosh he had a lot of children! A new chapter, a new pregnancy, hats off to Isabelle de Clare I think.

[EC2]

William Marshall is my favourite Elizabeth Chadwick character and led me to research the real man. Is it possible to fall in love with someone who lived 800 years ago? I was so sad at the end of Scarlet Lion but then I read A Place Beyond Courage and he was a boy again! :D

But my gosh he had a lot of children! A new chapter, a new pregnancy, hats off to Isabelle de Clare I think.

Thanks M'lady :D
Re pregnancies. She didn't have it as bad as Maude de Braose who copped for 16! Fitting all the children into novels and keeping track of them can be a nightmare. The Medieval mindset didn't go in for contraception as the default, although I know couples did wangle their way round it. William was a man of balance. 5 boys, 5 girls :-)

[Madeleine]

William Marshall is my favourite Elizabeth Chadwick character and led me to research the real man. Is it possible to fall in love with someone who lived 800 years ago? I was so sad at the end of Scarlet Lion but then I read A Place Beyond Courage and he was a boy again! :D

But my gosh he had a lot of children! A new chapter, a new pregnancy, hats off to Isabelle de Clare I think.

Yes, to both William and John Marshal!;):D

[M'lady]

Thanks M'lady :D
Re pregnancies. She didn't have it as bad as Maude de Braose who copped for 16! Fitting all the children into novels and keeping track of them can be a nightmare. The Medieval mindset didn't go in for contraception as the default, although I know couples did wangle their way round it. William was a man of balance. 5 boys, 5 girls :-)

You're welcome, your books really make me feel what the past was like. :) I recently read about a Queen in the 1700s who had 17 and 16 died, imagine how awful that must have been. William Marshal's lucky he had so many apparently healthy. I love it when the characters have loads of children in your books though, I don't know why lol.

I sent you an email before and didn't get a reply. :(

[EC2]

You're welcome, your books really make me feel what the past was like. :) I recently read about a Queen in the 1700s who had 17 and 16 died, imagine how awful that must have been. William Marshal's lucky he had so many apparently healthy. I love it when the characters have loads of children in your books though, I don't know why lol.

I sent you an email before and didn't get a reply. :(

I'm sometimes a bit behind on e-mails if the workload swamps me, but usually I get around to them in the fullness of time. Sometimes e-mails don't make it through though. I'm having trouble with a few missing ones at the moment, so it might be that as well. Apologies anyway, whatever the reason - it wasn't intentional!

[M'lady]

lol it's ok thanks! :D I can imagine how many you get.

[Rissa]

I read The greatest Knight nearly three years ago (German translation) and I loved it. It's definitely on my personal top 20 list, maybe even in top 10!
I haven't come around to get Scarlet Lion yet, but it's near the top of my wishlist.

[Ely]

I realise that I am very late to this particular party, but I am now half way through The Greatest Knight, and I am really enjoying it. As they say "better late than never"

[nona]

Ive read the Greatest Knight twice and reading this thread i think i shall again shortly.

[Saxon1974]

I just finished "The Greatest Knight". Quite an enjoyable read but there was one aspect I didn't love. I realize that I am probably going to get flamed for posting anything like that:)

This is merely my opinion though as all readers like different things.

Things I did like:

-I really enjoy Chadwick's easy reading style and ability to draw me into the medieval world and this book was no different in this area.

-I really enjoyed learning about this remarkable man and couldn't believe he was honorable enough to stick to his guns for loyalty as he did.

-I realize his life is so full of details that writing a novel about him couldn't be easy and I thought Chadwick did a very nice job of this with having to span large gaps of time between some chapters. It felt pretty seamless.

-Thought she did a very nice job portraying the English royal family and they seemed consistent with every thing I have read about them.

-Seem very historically accurate (As much as I know about the subject)

The one aspect that I didnt love:

I felt like the book had WAY to much about his familial life with his wife\concubine and the royal court political discussions. It felt like this was 80% of the book. Now I realize he really was a big part of English court politics of the time but it really felt like there were pages and pages and pages of it. I am a male reader however and I realize that my interest is more in his tourney and military career. I don't dislike familial details but would have just liked a bit less of it. I would have liked the book better if it was closer to 50/50.:)

There were many times in the book where I felt like the book was building up to an interesting castle siege and then I turn the page and he is back with his wife and tells her how the siege went in a few sentences after the fact. I felt like the book had a good start with the battle at Drincourt and some early tourney's but it felt like he really quickly become this great tourney champion without really showing us why he was so good. Same thing with his military skills.

Anyway, I hope I don't offend by posting my opinion as that's all it is...an opinion.

I have read quite a few of Chadwick's books and really enjoy them even though some tend to vere too far into the romance category.

Cheers and keep them coming Ms. Chadwick! (Although I wish there were less Romancy covers for the newer ones);)

[EC2]

I just finished "The Greatest Knight". Quite an enjoyable read but there was one aspect I didn't love. I realize that I am probably going to get flamed for posting anything like that:)

Hiya, I'm replying on here cos I'm a member and everyone knows me, and cos it seems appropriate even though you won't find me doing the comment stuff elsewhere online. It's a fine line between adding insights and being intrusive.



This is merely my opinion though as all readers like different things.

Things I did like:

-I really enjoy Chadwick's easy reading style and ability to draw me into the medieval world and this book was no different in this area.

-I really enjoyed learning about this remarkable man and couldn't believe he was honorable enough to stick to his guns for loyalty as he did.


I think that sometimes loyalty went hand in glove with self-interest, I have certainly come to see that about him as I've continued to research - I didn't leave William and his family behind when I finished the novel; they are an ongoing project. I would say that with the above first line caveat of 'sometimes' on most occasions he does appear to have been intensely loyal. You choose one lord, you serve one lord and lead by example. The dodgy dealing over his French lands in The Scarlet Lion is a bit more of a grey area, and I think as he matured he learned to stand firm for what he was worth to kings.

-I realize his life is so full of details that writing a novel about him couldn't be easy and I thought Chadwick did a very nice job of this with having to span large gaps of time between some chapters. It felt pretty seamless.

Urggh, that was such a bane. I would really like to have written more - particulary on the chevauchee of the 1173 war but I was constrained by the contract to word count, so had to pick and choose what to write - ideally I'd have included much more.

-Thought she did a very nice job portraying the English royal family and they seemed consistent with every thing I have read about them.

-Seem very historically accurate (As much as I know about the subject)

Thank you - I did my best.

The one aspect that I didnt love:

I felt like the book had WAY to much about his familial life with his wife\concubine and the royal court political discussions. It felt like this was 80% of the book. Now I realize he really was a big part of English court politics of the time but it really felt like there were pages and pages and pages of it. I am a male reader however and I realize that my interest is more in his tourney and military career. I don't dislike familial details but would have just liked a bit less of it. I would have liked the book better if it was closer to 50/50.:)

This is where the personal taste comes in.:) I have reviews saying 'too much fighting, not enough romance.' And others saying the opposite.


There were many times in the book where I felt like the book was building up to an interesting castle siege and then I turn the page and he is back with his wife and tells her how the siege went in a few sentences after the fact. I felt like the book had a good start with the battle at Drincourt and some early tourney's but it felt like he really quickly become this great tourney champion without really showing us why he was so good. Same thing with his military skills.

Part of this is down to wrestling with word count and part of it again, is down to personal taste. There are several wonderful incidents from the Histoire de Guillame le Mareschal I had to leave out because there just wasn't the room.

Anyway, I hope I don't offend by posting my opinion as that's all it is...an opinion.

Absolutely not - thank you for your input!

I have read quite a few of Chadwick's books and really enjoy them even though some tend to vere too far into the romance category.

Cheers and keep them coming Ms. Chadwick! (Although I wish there were less Romancy covers for the newer ones);)

I keep telling them re the romancey covers but horse to water and all that. We are doing a reshoot in the UK of TGK, The Scarlet Lion, A Place Beyond Courage and The Time of Singing, but I don't know what will come of it.
My earlier novels do tend to veer more towards the romance side. I always say (beer glass being half full, not half empy!) that there's something for everyone. :)
Thanks!

[Saxon1974]

Thanks for the response Mrs. Chadwick! It's not often you get a response directly from an author so that's a neat thing for me.

I'm glad your not offended by my comment on the romance vs military content. I kind of figured you were getting demands from both sides and since your early books lean more towards romance I would bet alot of your fans like the romancy parts. It's funny because I didn't get this feeling as much from Lords of the White Castle which is my favorite by you so far and If I remember correct that one had quite a bit of romance in it no? I even loaned that one to my Dad to read since he likes historical fiction as well.

I keep telling them re the romancey covers but horse to water and all that. We are doing a reshoot in the UK of TGK, The Scarlet Lion, A Place Beyond Courage and The Time of Singing, but I don't know what will come of it.
My earlier novels do tend to veer more towards the romance side. I always say (beer glass being half full, not half empy!) that there's something for everyone. :)
Thanks!

Oh, good to know, if I like the new covers better I will buy TGK and Scarlet Lion again. I have not read APBC or TOS yet, but I will probably read APBC because I believe that one is about Marshals father so sounds interesting. I am in the USA but I will order a book from amazon uk even if it costs a bit more if I like the edition better.

I think that sometimes loyalty went hand in glove with self-interest, I have certainly come to see that about him as I've continued to research - I didn't leave William and his family behind when I finished the novel; they are an ongoing project. I would say that with the above first line caveat of 'sometimes' on most occasions he does appear to have been intensely loyal. You choose one lord, you serve one lord and lead by example. The dodgy dealing over his French lands in The Scarlet Lion is a bit more of a grey area, and I think as he matured he learned to stand firm for what he was worth to kings.!

Interesting..I would hope that he believed in honor and loyalty in his heart but then realized it was a "valuable" asset to the royals as he grew more experienced. As he became more famous he did have more lands and more support from barons so that would make sense that he would have more chips to bargain with. This being said I just started reading the Scarlet Lion, looking forward to it.

This book also really made me think about King John. In my early days I used to think he was not "that bad" of a king and this was just a creation of the Robin Hood tale but the more I read and learn about him he sure does come across as a nasty character in some ways. But as in most things real life and not fairy tales, it was more a shade of grey with some good and some bad. I read in the Medieval Warfare magazine about how his nephew Arthur of Brittany was never seen again after being held captive by John after the battle of Mirebeau. After reading TGK I think it's definitely possible John was responsible for his death! I am going to guess some of those events are in the Scarlet Lion though so I hope I didn't spoil anyting for anyone.

I also wonder if John had not lost the French lands if he would be remembered differently by history. I would imagine that loss would have been seen as a big blow to English royalty of the time.

I will give an impression after the Scarlet Lion after I read it.

Cheers

[Misfit]

I really like to hear honest, heartfelt criticism, even against authors that are favorites of mine. I find it interesting to see how author readers can bring their own thoughts and life experiences into a book and see it in a completely different way than I did.

[Saxon1974]

I really like to hear honest, heartfelt criticism, even against authors that are favorites of mine. I find it interesting to see how author readers can bring their own thoughts and life experiences into a book and see it in a completely different way than I did.

I agree, but I was a bit hesitant to post any criticism as I usually like to say "If you don't have anything good to say don't say anything at all".

Plus I have knew that Mrs. Chadwick posts on here so didn't want to give offense. I figured how does one really know how readers feel if honest opinions are not given? She is one of my favorite authors as well so I wanted to give my honest opinions instead of just unabashed praise. If I didn't like her books I wouldn't be posting on here.

Oh man right after I posted about arthur last night I read that chapter in the Scarlet Lion. Man oh man that part was hard to read. I felt so sorry for the poor boy. Having a young son myself made it even more sad and despicable.

[Madeleine]

Yep I was going to warn you about that bit....!