M M Kaye

[diamondlil]

I normally love my library, but I was very surprised when I went to check the catalogue tonight to see what M M Kaye books they had and found that they don't have either The Far Pavillions or Shadow of the Moon!

They do have books 1 and 3 in the Share of Summer series which consists of The Sun in the Morning, Golden Afternoon and Enchanted Evening which are all non-fiction and apparently are the three volumes of her autobiography.

The only other books they have are books 2 and 6 in the Death in series.


No Shadow of the Moon...no The Far Pavillions! Waaaahhh.

Fortunately I am a member at more than one library, but so far two of them have The Far Pavillions but none of them have Shadow of the Moon! I remember loving that book so much, and I really want to read it again.

[Mara]

Good luck in your search. I've read both many years ago and loved them, though my favourite novel of hers is Trade Wind. Rory is such a lovable rogue... ;)

Incidentally, The Far Pavillions was the first ever historical novel I read in the English language at the age of 17 (up to then it was only Agatha Christie's - and everything else in German), and it got me hooked on historicals. What a wonderful writer M M Kaye was.

[Ash]

Wow, that really is shameful - both of those books are remarkable and should be available. Tho given the cuts our libraries have taken lately, it wouldn't surprise me if ours didn't have them as well. Well, I know I often see them at our used bookstore, so you might want to try there.

[Misfit]

How a library can not have The Far Pavilions is beyond me. I also love SOTM and Trade Wind as well, although I've never tried her mysteries. I started The Sun in The Morning a couple of months ago but got side tracked and had to return to the library. Another day. It was interesting and it's more than just a retelling of her life, she also recounts her father's life which included a long and very interesting military career.

[Vanessa]

To buy a new hardback copy of Trade Winds on Amazon UK, it's £74.85!!!:eek: Luckily, I do have old copies of this book and Shadow of the Moon and The Far Pavillions somewhere. I am now just wondering exactly where they may be! I shall have to have a hunt round.

[Misfit]

Why are these out of print older books so hard to find and expensive in the UK when they're a penny a pop in the US? Just for curiosity's sake, how would that work out for shipping to the UK from the US? See book listing (http://www.thriftbooks.com/SearchResult.aspx?searchby=title&value=trade+wind&type=1) on Thrift Books.

[Vanessa]

There are some used copies for 1p, but I suppose a brand new copy would be very hard to get hold of now hence the £74.85. All my copies are in lovely condition, as are my books really. I take good care of them.

[Mara]

After watching the Far Pavilions on telly in the mid 80s I got hooked. I bought the book, Shadow of the Moon, Trade Wind, and several of her whodunits. Still have them all in very good condition. They were probably all re-released in the wake of the series.

She managed to set the scenes really well and you knew instantly that she had in-depth knowledge of the areas. Albeit from a different time as today.

Can't believe she's out of print. Very sad!

[Misfit]

The Far Pavilions is available (http://www.amazon.com/Far-Pavilions-M-Kaye/dp/031215125X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220536051&sr=8-1) in Trade Paperback at least in the US.

[LCW]

I'm reading The Far Pavillions now and for me so far it's just OK. I'm 1/2 way through (it's taking a while to read as last week I was busy with holiday stuff) and am still waiting for *something* to happen. So far the best part has been the wonderful descriptions of India. I'm not too thrilled with the storyline though. It's just a little bit slow and plodding for me. I still have 1/2the book to read so it may change but as of now I'm really surprised as I thought for sure I'd love this one!!

[Misfit]

I'm reading The Far Pavillions now and for me so far it's just OK. I'm 1/2 way through (it's taking a while to read as last week I was busy with holiday stuff) and am still waiting for *something* to happen. So far the best part has been the wonderful descriptions of India. I'm not too thrilled with the storyline though. It's just a little bit slow and plodding for me. I still have 1/2the book to read so it may change but as of now I'm really surprised as I thought for sure I'd love this one!!

I'm really surprised I loved loved loved this book, especially the wedding trip and the Suttee rescue. The last part is a bit slower so be warned.

One of the things about Kaye's writing is her knowledge of Eastern cultures and her ability to show to us how different Eastern and Western cultures are - not that they're wrong just different and we'll never see eye to eye.

[MLE]

All right, at the risk of being heretical, I too think that MM Kaye could really have used an editor. One of the problems that she has as a writer (at least when writing about the country of her birth) is TMI. She has got to make sure that you know every detail of the political climate, and to accomplish this she puts in long-winded debates between minor characters which have very little to do with the story at hand.

I preferred Shadow of the Moon because the politics had much more to do with the plot, since most of the book was a the countdown to the Sepoy Mutiny.

Another problem with Far Pavilions was the ending. Pretty much all of the Afghan Campaign could have been left out and it wouldn't have hurt the plot a bit. I think that since Kaye wrote in her husband's relative Wally Hamilton as a side character, she had to follow him to his demise no matter what.

[Misfit]

Another problem with Far Pavilions was the ending. Pretty much all of the Afghan Campaign could have been left out and it wouldn't have hurt the plot a bit. I think that since Kaye wrote in her husband's relative Wally Hamilton as a side character, she had to follow him to his demise no matter what.

I'll agree with you there, I alway thought they could have dropped the last third of the novel and it would still be tops in my books. I have to confess I don't mind all that information as long as I'm learning something, but that's just me.

[EC2]

I'm not reading TFP again as it would be the 4th time, but to say that I loved this book from the get-go and all the way through. It is a while since I've read it, so I might now think it could do with an edit, but I never saw the need on the other occasions. Misfit, yes. That suttee scene has to go down as one of the most vibrant and exciting in any work of historical fiction I have ever read. I also think that my love for TFP explains why I didn't go for Beneath a Marble Sky all that much. If I hadn't read TFP I might not have realised how lacking BAMS was.

[Ash]

All right, at the risk of being heretical, I too think that MM Kaye could really have used an editor. One of the problems that she has as a writer (at least when writing about the country of her birth) is TMI. She has got to make sure that you know every detail of the political climate, and to accomplish this she puts in long-winded debates between minor characters which have very little to do with the story at hand.

That would have taken everything I loved about the book. It is after all a historical fiction novel. And the details of India itself are breathtaking.

Pretty much all of the Afghan Campaign could have been left out and it wouldn't have hurt the plot a bit. I think that since Kaye wrote in her husband's relative Wally Hamilton as a side character, she had to follow him to his demise no matter what.

Actually after I read that part, I wanted to know more! I started reading up on both campaigns. I had a much better idea of Afghanistan by the time our country was directly involved with it. Tho thinking on it, if it had been taken out, I am not sure it would have hurt the novel at all.

I will admit, that India has always fascinated me, and by the time I read this as an adult, I had already read many classic books like Kim, and many historic novels. So I totally understand that 'your mileage may vary'.

BTW, should we be holding off on comments till January? This is the book of the month, right?

[LCW]

......She has got to make sure that you know every detail of the political climate, and to accomplish this she puts in long-winded debates between minor characters which have very little to do with the story at hand.



I agree, there's a lot of background and I think the author is trying very hard to convey to the reader the tensions and turmoils between occupiers and occupied but, IMO at least, sometimes it's at the expense of the story.

Maybe that's why the beginning of the novel when Ash was the little Hindu boy, Ashok, was the best part so far for me. It was more story oriented then.

[LCW]

I'm really surprised I loved loved loved this book, especially the wedding trip and the Suttee rescue. The last part is a bit slower so be warned.

One of the things about Kaye's writing is her knowledge of Eastern cultures and her ability to show to us how different Eastern and Western cultures are - not that they're wrong just different and we'll never see eye to eye.

I loved the wedding scene! That was a good one! And the entire part of Ash's childhood was great, I was loving the book....then he grew up, lol. The whole Belinda thing was a bit cliched for me. Hero falls for bratty awful spoiled rich girl then sees her for what she is...a bit too typical!!

I haven't gotten to the suttee scene but I pretty much figured there would be one in there since it comes up so often. Ugh, what an awful thing! I do like that the author is very fair in the treatment of both cultures and isnt' glamorizing one while demonizing another. She shows the weaknesses and strenghts of both.

I don't hate the book, I just don't love it, and right now it's at a tentative four stars but if the ending is even slower it might end up at three stars. I definitely plan to read Shadow of the Moon though. I recognise talent in the author I just think there's too much background and not enough story for me here!

[Misfit]

I haven't gotten to the suttee scene but I pretty much figured there would be one in there since it comes up so often. Ugh, what an awful thing! I do like that the author is very fair in the treatment of both cultures and isnt' glamorizing one while demonizing another. She shows the weaknesses and strenghts of both.

I think Ash is right we're getting a head of ourselves, but that the Suttee bit is one of the all time tops unputdownable sit on the edge of your pants scenes I've come across anywhere.

I've never read Kaye's mysteries (not my bag), but I also enjoyed Trade Wind (set in Zanzibar). There's a controversial scene towards the end of the book that turned off some Amazon readers but we weren't so PC back when that book was first written.

I've got to get back to reading her memoirs. I didn't get very far on the first one and then it was due back at the library. Her father lead quite an interesting life as well in the civil service.

[Caveowl]

has just returned to Zanzibar, after giving the pirates a message about the island's small European community. And Hero Athena may have taken one horse ride too many. Thanks to all of you for pointing me toward MMKaye. I am starting with an LP edition of "Trade Winds," learning about the Arab slave trade. Next book will be "Far Pavillion," particularly since you all have me curious about the Suttee scene.

In the January poll, I voted for "Whale Road." Can I recall that vote? IMO, Low's book is too much swords and fury, not enough development of character or setting.

About libraries: in Central Oregon there are three county libraries, one rich, two poor. The poorest has the highest percentage of "classic" HF, since they don't buy much new stuff, they keep the old. Conversely, the rich library has a very high "turnover rate" in their collection. The poor library's copy of "Captain from Castile," the only one in the region, is a battered wreck of a book, having no jacket, a broken spine, and loose pages. It's beyond inhouse repair of most libraries. Any affluent library would likely have tossed that copy years ago. I haven't checked, but if it's OP in HC, the odds are it wouldn't be re-ordered.

(Question: when I wrote the first, longer, more graphic draft of this and clicked on preview, I saw an oops and went to edit it in the "preview post" window and it disappeared ... Not knowing what happened, I'm curious if this "program" has a subtle self-protection device?)

[Misfit]

(Question: when I wrote the first, longer, more graphic draft of this and clicked on preview, I saw an oops and went to edit it in the "preview post" window and it disappeared ... Not knowing what happened, I'm curious if this "program" has a subtle self-protection device?)

I've never been able to preview on any comment when I'm editing the original.

Don't you love those LP editions? I can actually read them without reading glasses :p

I'll be curious to see your take on that one scene towards the end of Trade Wind that set so many Amazon reviewers off. I though MMK lead up to Rory's rational quite well and it fit for the period - they weren't exactly PC in those days.

[LCW]

OK so I finished TFP and I have to say the book got so much better...pretty much right after I posted. I was riveted by the suttee scene and all the events surrounding it. The last 150 pages about the Second Afghan Campaign seemed like they should've been part of another novel. They just seemed slapped on the last part of the novel for no reason. She should've added them much much earlier in the novel and adjusted the timeline of her ficitonal story accordingly. I know it's a faux pau for readers to make comments like that but I just couldn't help myself, it's all I could think about while reading it. But I looved the ending! So all in all it's a 4 star novel for me! No if I could just get, as someone here once so geniously put it, my "review mojo" back, lol!!

[Caveowl]

re "Trade Wind."* The book was an enriching history lesson, but I skimmed at an increasing rate in the second half.* It would interest me to know how Kaye worked, or not, with editors.The specific scene involving Hero and Rory seemed possible, but improbable.* I chose not to read the Amazon reviews, but I'm confident of the scene to which you refer. To me, Rory's acts of revenge were not congruent with the book's ending.* For the sake of those who haven't yet read "Trade Wind," I'll say not much more; however, the concept, and vast sales, of the "Bodice Ripper" genre isn't a phenomenon that I comprehend.* Could "Trade Wind" be fairly described to have an element of that genre?That said, next, after re-reading a Robert Goddard LP, "Into the Blue," I'll try "Far Pavillions" in regular print.* (Interesting to google "suttee scene.")Re LP: Having had cataract surgeries, and then another surgery for recurrent corneal erosion, I tend to give up on regular print much more quickly than LP books.

[Ash]

. I know it's a faux pau for readers to make comments like that but I just couldn't help myself, it's all I could think about while reading it. !

Why a faux pas? We are discussing a book and in the discussion I'd expect people to say what they didn't like. I think you have a very good point, actually. But glad you ultimately liked it - and yes that suttree scene was amazing.

[Misfit]

Could "Trade Wind" be fairly described to have an element of that genre?

I really wouldn't see it that way. What maddened me is the way some reviewers carried on and I'm like how many soap opera bad guys started out doing that very same thing and they get turned into the next super hero and marry the woman. Nobody has a problem with that though......

Re LP: Having had cataract surgeries, and then another surgery for recurrent corneal erosion, I tend to give up on regular print much more quickly than LP books.

I think it's great that these books are availalbe. I'd never known that until I accidentally took one out from the library. :)

[LCW]

Why a faux pas? We are discussing a book and in the discussion I'd expect people to say what they didn't like. I think you have a very good point, actually. But glad you ultimately liked it - and yes that suttree scene was amazing.

I"ve read in various places that readers should review an author's work based on what they actually wrote, not the way the reader wished they wrote it. I try to do that but I couln't help thinking she should've rearranged some things in TFP.

[Ash]

I understand - but there are many times when its obvious what the author needed to do to make the story better. I don't think there's anything wrong at bringing that up. But then I don't think there should be much restriction on how a reader critiques a book, esp for a informal discussion.

[LCW]

Yes, I agree! And that's a good point about informal discussions!!

[diamondlil]

I bought a copy of Shadow of the Moon for $1 today! Yay!

[Misfit]

I bought a copy of Shadow of the Moon for $1 today! Yay!

Good job. Watch out for those last 200 pages they're a killer (no sleep).