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diamondlil
09-01-2008, 10:22 AM
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Discuss September 2008 BOTM The Heretic Queen by Michelle Moran in this thread.

Ash
09-01-2008, 11:00 PM
Speaking of heresy - I've never been much interested in reading about ancient Egypt. And yet I love good HF. Anyone have the same reluctance, but read it anyway? Comments?

EC2
09-01-2008, 11:23 PM
Speaking of heresy - I've never been much interested in reading about ancient Egypt. And yet I love good HF. Anyone have the same reluctance, but read it anyway? Comments?

Ash yes, me definitely. I have a strange fascination/aversion to Ancient Egypt. It both attracts and scares me - past life experience probably <g>!
I don't 'naturally' read about that period and it's one I have avoided in the past. However, I have read Heretic Queen and it's great. Don't be put off. Michelle has a great feel for that time in history coupled with a writing style that makes it as immediate as now.
I really enjoyed travelling with Nefertari. I would have liked a bit more of Rameses - but that's from a selfish viewpoint as I have a 'thing' for heroes!:o
It's an excellent read.

Judith
09-01-2008, 11:49 PM
I am so looking forward to the release of this book!! Two more weeks!! :D

michellemoran
09-02-2008, 05:59 PM
Thank you so much EC, for such a beautiful recommendation!

And Ash, believe it or not, I never read a single his fic set in Ancient Egypt before I wrote Nefertiti. Of course, I had read many, many nonfiction books, but historical fiction set in Egypt just didn't interest me until I came across Nefertiti's story. For some reason, HF set in the ancient world often alienates me with too many strange names, stilted dialogue, and dry descriptions. So I tried my best to make Nefertiti (and The Heretic Queen) into "beach reads".

Of course, I couldn't do anything about the names (although I did shorten some of them, like Mutnodjmet to Mutny), but I really tried my best to make the dialogue more modern and snappy without using metaphors/similes that would take the reader out of ancient Egypt (for example, you can't use similes like strong as iron until iron was invented!).

Divia
09-02-2008, 09:15 PM
OMG Loved the book and finished it in two days.

I really like how Ms. Moran put in a lot of detail without making the story seem like a history book. I thought it was just enough.

And I really enjoyed the Historical note at the end where you said why you did certain things. I thought that was neat.

LCW
09-03-2008, 12:58 AM
Speaking of heresy - I've never been much interested in reading about ancient Egypt. And yet I love good HF. Anyone have the same reluctance, but read it anyway? Comments?


Egypt was never really interesting to me either. I bought a few other HF books on Egypt but haven't gotten around to reading them. But I read Nefertiti by Michelle Moran and loved it so I'm anxious to read this one.

michellemoran
09-03-2008, 05:56 PM
Thank you, Divia. And Lila, I hope you enjoy it (talk about feeling the pressure!)!

Kailana
09-07-2008, 08:29 AM
Howdy folks,

Michelle Moran will be appearing on Historical Tapestry (http://historicaltapestry.blogspot.com) for a week later in September, and I thought people here would be interested! There is a give-away for a chance to win a copy of The Heretic Queen, as well as an interview and Michelle is writing an article of sorts. To see all the details, head on over to Historical Tapestry (http://historicaltapestry.blogspot.com/2008/09/announcement-michelle-moran-week.html)!

Hope to see you there!

Ash
09-07-2008, 11:32 AM
Michelle, I hope you weren't offended by my post. Its always tricky when you suddenly realize the author is here! I think my reluctance to read much about Egypt (as well as Rome or Greece) is that its all we got at school in terms of ancient world history. There are so many other places I'd like to visit in stories. But, seeing that you also never read any HF on Egypt before makes me want to take a peek. Stay tuned, you may have a convert :)

Divia
09-07-2008, 03:57 PM
Well we all have different things we like. I mean I'm a huge Victorian nut. I can understand why some people wouldnt want to read about a certain area or topic. Its not there thing. Its understandable.

The book is well written, well both are. If you enjoy good historical fiction I have no doubt you will enjoy these. Plus Michelle puts a lot of detail in her novels so those who aren't fimilar with Egypt can get a good understanding of what is going on.

Ash
09-07-2008, 04:12 PM
The book is well written, well both are. If you enjoy good historical fiction I have no doubt you will enjoy these. Plus Michelle puts a lot of detail in her novels so those who aren't fimilar with Egypt can get a good understanding of what is going on.


Thanks for that. And since I think you were the one who got me turned on to Guersney Litereary Society, I may just have to try it. Keeping an open mind is a good thing, in life as well as reading!

michellemoran
09-07-2008, 04:51 PM
Thank you, Divia. And Ash, no offense taken at all. Even if you were to have read the book and said it was utter trash I wouldn't be offended (sad that I disappointed, but not offended!).

And Ash, I share your views about fiction set in Greece and Rome, too. My third book is Cleopatra's Daughter, based on the true story of Cleopatra's twins with Mark Antony who were taken to Rome and paraded through the streets in Octavian's Triumph. Although ancient Rome and the Middle Ages are my academic specialties, I've shied away from reading Greek and Roman fiction for the same reason I never read any Egyptian before Nefertiti was published. Firstly, most books set in ancient Rome are war-heavy, whereas I'm interested in women's day-to-day lives. Secondly, they're often bogged down in Senate politics which, while fascinating, excluded women.

But more books are starting to appear where women take center stage in the Roman Empire, like Pilate's Wife (http://www.amazon.com/Pilates-Wife-Novel-Roman-Empire/dp/006112866X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220805869&sr=1-1) and Boudica (http://www.amazon.com/Boudica-1-Manda-Scott/dp/0553814060/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220806269&sr=1-5). While I've purchased these books, I'm wary of reading them until I've finished my own novels, just in case they influence my writing (and research). I'll have to check our reviews section on this blog to see if anyone's read them. I've heard great things about Manda Scott's Boudica.

Vanessa
09-09-2008, 09:18 AM
I've finished this book now. This is the first book I have ever read set in Egypt, so I did approach it with trepidation as it's not an era I've thought of reading about before. However, I was very pleasantly suprised and I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed it! I think it's good to be taken out of your comfort zone sometimes.

I liked the way it was written, it was so very readable. I thought it was fast paced and very entertaining. I loved all the different elements to it - mystery, war and, of course, the love story! It gave me a good insight into the Egyptian way of live, about which I knew very little (apart from watching films like The Mummy!:rolleyes:) - I found it all very interesting. I was glad of the family tree, map and glossary, they helped me immensely. I like Nefertari and I think Ramesses should be added to the "hunk" list! I'm not sure I'd like to share him, though!:eek: What a thing!

Thanks to whoever nominated the book and also a huge thanks to Michelle for writing it! "Nefertiti" is on my wish list and I look forward to seeing your next book being published.

Divia
09-09-2008, 11:13 AM
I'm glad you enjoyed it!

I dont know a lick about Egyptian history except for the brief things I was taught in college, and I barely remember it. I loved the way Michelle talks about the makeup, fashions, jewerly they used to wear.

Carine
09-09-2008, 12:53 PM
I've read Nefertiti and loved it very much, now I'm really looking forward to reading The Heretic Queen. But then again I am an Ancient Egyptian-fan !

A few years ago I read the Ramesses series (5 books) by Christian Jacq which I enjoyed but with Michelle Moran's book Nefertiti, I felt more like "involved" in the story and that gives that "unputdownable" feeling.

Vanessa
09-09-2008, 05:08 PM
I'm glad you enjoyed it!

I dont know a lick about Egyptian history except for the brief things I was taught in college, and I barely remember it. I loved the way Michelle talks about the makeup, fashions, jewerly they used to wear.

I enjoyed that part, too, Divia. I was trying to visualise Nefertari in my mind in her 'kohl' make up and sheaths. And Ramesses in his kilt and 'nemes' crown!! LOL. It all sounded very ostentatious which I suppose it was.

TerriPray
09-09-2008, 05:20 PM
I'll have to wait until December to read this one. That's the earliest that the local library can get a copy through inter library loan. They won't get their own copy until some time next year...

LCW
09-09-2008, 05:31 PM
Has anyone gotten their copy yet? Those who had to preorder it online?

Vanessa
09-09-2008, 05:38 PM
It's already out in the UK.

michellemoran
09-09-2008, 09:53 PM
Since THQ was voted BOM here, anyone on this forum who would like a copy can feel free to send me their address via PM and I'll get one to you.

LCW
09-09-2008, 09:55 PM
Great!! After I already paid for mine! :D

michellemoran
09-09-2008, 10:24 PM
Oh, sorry! Um.. well... I can give you a signed bookplate. Or an awesome Nefertiti pen :D Ooops.. guess I should have posted that sooner.

diamondlil
09-09-2008, 10:36 PM
Since THQ was voted BOM here, anyone on this forum who would like a copy can feel free to send me their address via PM and I'll get one to you.


Wow. That is an incredibly generous offer. Thanks Michelle!

boswellbaxter
09-09-2008, 11:20 PM
That is generous!

Just out of curiosity, why was it published in the UK first?

Divia
09-09-2008, 11:42 PM
Since THQ was voted BOM here, anyone on this forum who would like a copy can feel free to send me their address via PM and I'll get one to you.

That totally rocks! You're awesome.

Yeah, why is it out in the UK first. :confused:

Kailana
09-09-2008, 11:58 PM
I would just be happy for my copy to get here! Stupid Canada and its slow mail!

Ash
09-10-2008, 12:02 AM
How do we contact you? I went to the website but didn't see a link, only the publishing link. (thanks btw!)

diamondlil
09-10-2008, 12:15 AM
Ash, you can send Michelle a Private Message.

LCW
09-10-2008, 12:31 AM
Oh, sorry! Um.. well... I can give you a signed bookplate. Or an awesome Nefertiti pen :D Ooops.. guess I should have posted that sooner.


LOL, that's OK! And it really was a generous offer! Now about my Nefertiti pen............. :D:D:D

michellemoran
09-10-2008, 12:49 AM
Ash, if you don't know how to use the PM, just email me at michelledmoran@hotmail.com!

michellemoran
09-10-2008, 12:50 AM
Hi Susan,

Every country has its own publishing schedule, so I get books in February from Serbia, and from China in April. Usually the US is first, but I was several months late with the novel and the UK said they were sticking to their August schedule come... well... hell or high water! Originally, THQ was supposed to come out in August in the US.

boswellbaxter
09-10-2008, 12:57 AM
Hi Susan,

Every country has it's own publishing schedule, so I get books in February from Serbia, and from China in April. Usually the US is first, but I was several months late with the novel and the UK said they were sticking to their August schedule come... well... hell or high water! Originally, THQ was supposed to come out in August in the US.

That makes sense, then. Thanks!

Carine
09-10-2008, 06:13 AM
Since THQ was voted BOM here, anyone on this forum who would like a copy can feel free to send me their address via PM and I'll get one to you.


Woaw ! That is a very generous offer Michelle, thanks a lot !!

Divia
09-14-2008, 04:16 AM
Just went on Michelle's website and I found all the quotes from those who read her book. I thought some maybe interested in how great the reviews are :)

http://www.michellemoran.com/her_reviews.htm

Julianne Douglas
09-14-2008, 05:00 AM
The Heretic Queen gets a big thumb's up from me! I absolutely loved it. I'll be posting an interview with Michelle (in which we talk about slaves, harems and the pressure of writing a second book) on my blog on Monday the 15th, and my review of the book on Tuesday, the official publication day.

Everyone hurry up and read the novel so we can talk about it! :)

Susan
09-14-2008, 10:50 AM
The Heretic Queen gets a big thumb's up from me! I absolutely loved it. I'll be posting an interview with Michelle (in which we talk about slaves, harems and the pressure of writing a second book) on my blog on Monday the 15th, and my review of the book on Tuesday, the official publication day.

Everyone hurry up and read the novel so we can talk about it! :)

I'm eagerly awaiting its arrival in my mailbox. Amazon is saying it won't be shipped until September 22!

amyb
09-16-2008, 03:28 PM
I just picked up my copy! Yeah!

LCW
09-16-2008, 04:13 PM
My copy should be here tomorrow! I'm wondering if I should start another book or just wait!!

Carine
09-16-2008, 04:52 PM
I got it in the mail today !! Yipie yay !!

diamondlil
09-16-2008, 08:05 PM
Mine arrived yesterday too.

Divia
09-16-2008, 08:48 PM
5 Stars on Amazon ;)

boswellbaxter
09-16-2008, 10:54 PM
Bought mine this afternoon and got a couple of chapters read during dinner.

Kailana
09-18-2008, 11:08 AM
If anyone is finished this book and wants to discuss it, I'm game. I finished it the other night. :)

Divia
09-18-2008, 11:11 AM
I finished it last week ;) So I'm game.

Let me ask you this?




Did you miss Moses in the story? Were you hoping for him to appear?

Julianne Douglas
09-18-2008, 08:36 PM
Divia, I'm confused. I thought Moses WAS in the story as the character Ahmoses. It's just that Michelle portrayed him from an Egyptian perspective, rather than the Biblical one. He asked for the liberation of the Habiru (the Hebrews), but without all the theatrics of the Hebrew Scriptures.

I thought using him as a bridge between the two novels--it was due to Ahmoses's influence (his discussions with Akhenaten) that Akhenaten embraced monotheism (albeit in quite a different form than Judaism)--was quite a clever device on Michelle's part.

Anyway, I hope Michelle will correct me if I misread these passages.

Divia
09-18-2008, 08:53 PM
No you're right. :)

Some people are just expecting the Biblical moses and some might be upset he wasnt there.

Susan
09-18-2008, 10:46 PM
My copy arrived yesterday! Hopefully I can zip through my teacher work this weekend and spend some time reading it.

michellemoran
09-18-2008, 11:26 PM
Julianne, you're right. That was what I was going for (as explained in the Author's Note).

As Divia points out, he's certainly not the Biblical Moses.

Julianne Douglas
09-19-2008, 03:40 AM
I think it was much more interesting NOT to find a typical depiction of Moses. I really appreciated how Ahmoses tries to appeal to Nefertari's own woundedness at being an outcast in order to win freedom for his people. It gave so much more psychological depth to the situation.

I'll have to admit, though, for the first couple of chapters I was looking for Moses to appear as Rameses foster-brother, a la Prince of Egyptt. Then I figured I had the wrong Rameses. I patted myself on the back, however, when I recognized right away that Ashai was an Egyptianization of Asher, Moses's brother. Then I knew the entire depiction of the Hebrews in Egypt was going to be interesting.

Another question for Michelle, if I haven't bugged her enough yet--what did your publisher think of the Moses angle? Did they want him to appear more or the Exodus story to play a greater role in the novel for "curb appeal"?

michellemoran
09-19-2008, 11:27 PM
Actually, Julianne, my publishing house had nothing to say about it! I kept asking my editor, "Is this okay?" and, "Are you sure this is going to be all right?" but Crown Publishers allows its authors to explore any historical avenue they choose so long as their books are compellingly written.

Other authors I know are overruled by their editors and told not only what sex the narrator of their books should be (always female) but what POV (almost always first person). I find this appalling. I don't know how widespread the practice is (hopefully not very), but I can tell you with certainty that it happens. Thankfully, it doesn't happen (that I know of) at Crown.

diamondlil
09-19-2008, 11:35 PM
Almost always first person POV - very interesting!

I know a lot of readers who don't particularly like reading books written in first person.

EC2
09-19-2008, 11:39 PM
Almost always first person POV - very interesting!

I know a lot of readers who don't particularly like reading books written in first person.

The received wisdom is that it is harder to sell - not just to readers but to editors in the first place - although obviously it is done.
As a reader I don't mind either.
Michelle, I'm glad that Crown don't interfere with your muse!

michellemoran
09-20-2008, 12:23 AM
HA! Thank you EC. I believe you're right and it is a harder sell. Plus, as Diamondlil points out, many people prefer third person. I suspect it has something to do with the success of authors like Philippa Gregory, Tracy Chevalier, Anita Diamant, and Arthur Golden, all of whom wrote their biggest books in first person. Of course, there are just as many authors who write in third person and do wonderfully, but it's what's on publishers' radars.

Divia
09-20-2008, 12:48 AM
That is interesting!

Its also nice to see that your publisher lets you be an artist and do what you think is best for the book. Refreshing I think!

And I think you are right about the first person and the latest hits espically with Gregory. She seems to overshadow the entire genre. I like what she did, but I'd like something different thrown in there too.

Julianne Douglas
09-20-2008, 02:18 AM
I was wondering whether Crown had wanted the Moses episode to be more prominent in the book. It really doesn't surface until pretty far in, and even then, it's always secondary to N's quest to be named Chief Wife. I thought perhaps they might have wanted you to exploit it as an angle to widen your readership to people who were familiar with that story.

I posted some comments on first and third person in the poll thread. I've noticed, too, that many of the HF books that have done extremely well have been written in first. I've never had an editor say they wished mine was in first instead of third, but I was wondering whether I should try to write the second one in first. I don't know if I could pull it off, though. My third person is so close it's almost first, but I still retain the ability to get inside other characters' heads in separate chapters.

Telynor
09-20-2008, 04:32 AM
Well, I found the Moses bits interesting if a little jarring (out of courtesy I will refrain from saying anything), and I kept seeing Anne Baxter as Nefertari in this....

michellemoran
09-20-2008, 05:13 AM
Hi Telynor: I'm sorry to hear you found them jarring. And no need to be courteous. If you didn't like it, I understand.

Julianne: Truthfully, Crown wouldn't have cared if I had left out the Moses story all together. After all, there is no archaeological evidence for Moses's existence, so my including him (or someone like him) was purely creative license.

As for first versus third, my advice is to write what you write best. I know that's terribly cliche, but I think it's true. Look how far your voice in third has already taken your career. It's only the beginning for you!

Susan
09-20-2008, 04:03 PM
Michelle, you have me hooked! I got The Heretic Queen the day after it was published and I am already halfway done. I rarely read this much during the school year. Last night I went to bed by 9 PM exhausted from a week of teaching. I woke up at 1 AM and spent the next two hours reading. I really did not want to stop reading, but I knew I had to get some sleep.

Susan
09-20-2008, 04:09 PM
I kept seeing Anne Baxter as Nefertari in this....

I don't think that is all that odd! Whenever I read about Eleanor of Aquitaine, I see Katharine Hepburn. I haven't pictured Nefertari as Anne Baxter because the character starts out as a 13 year old. And thanks to Michelle's description of a red-haired Ramesses, I have not pictured Ramesses as Yul Brynner!

Kailana
09-20-2008, 05:36 PM
I used to hate first person POV, but it is growing on me. I find I am also a fan of books that change back and forth with each chapter, so that sometimes it is first-person and other times it is third. The only first-person POV I have not got over is when it is young kids narrating their own stories. I find it drives me crazy in a lot of cases and I end up not so much hating the book, but I would've liked it a lot better if it was told differently!

LCW
09-20-2008, 05:51 PM
I used to hate first person POV, but it is growing on me.

Same here! I used to think it was too limiting to tell a well rounded story but I've read so many good books recently that were first person so my opinion has changed.

michellemoran
09-20-2008, 06:24 PM
Susan,

I am so glad to hear you are enjoying the book! A 1 AM read is high compliments indeed!

michellemoran
09-20-2008, 08:10 PM
One of the forum members had a great question she PMed me today and I thought I would share it. She wanted to know whether a woman's virginity was necessary for marriage in ancient Egypt, since Nefertari loses her virginity to Ramesses before they marry. The short answer is no. In fact, if Nefertari had lost her virginity to someone else, she would still have been considered a suitable wife for Ramesses. Sometimes Pharaohs even took women who already had children. Quite a few things were reversed in ancient Egypt. The historian Herodotus (who admittedly lived after Nefertari) wrote:

The Egyptians appear to have reversed the ordinary practices of mankind. Women attend markets and are employed in trade, while men stay at home and do the weaving! Men in Egypt carry loads on their head, women on their shoulder. Women pass water standing up, men sitting down. To ease themselves, they go indoors, but eat outside on the streets, on the theory that what is unseemly, but necessary, should be done in private, and what is not unseemly should be done openly.
(Herodotus II: 33-37)

Divia
09-20-2008, 08:50 PM
Great question! I never would have thought about it because I foolishly thought that Egyptian practice was much like European!

Kailana
09-20-2008, 10:52 PM
See how backwards we have become! Even if men marry women that are not virgins or have children already, there are always those people in the background whispering about the scandal of it all! We think we are a more advanced society, but in many ways civilizations were better off. You can't do anything without people talking, it's crazy! Another big thing is age. Once upon a time it was common for a man to be older than his wife, and now it is frowned upon. We live in a very restrictive society...

Vanessa
09-20-2008, 11:06 PM
I love books written in the first person, I feel that the character is talking to me. It's one of the reasons why I enjoyed The Heretic Queen so much.

Tanzanite
09-21-2008, 12:25 AM
I finished it in two evenings and I loved it! And even though Ramesses is described as having red hair, I kept seeing Yul Brenner's face (he didn't have much hair in the movie - just a braid I think).

michellemoran
09-21-2008, 12:29 AM
I'm so glad you and Vanessa both liked it! I have to admit, it was hard to getting used to a red-haired hero. If I hadn't seen the mummy myself, or the microscopic analysis on the roots proving it wasn't just dye or henna, I would have had a hard time believing it. But as I said in one of my guest-blog posts, Ginger, the oldest mummy discovered in Egypt, had red hair, and so did the Egyptian god Set. The diversity of ancient Egypt must really have been quite something.

Telynor
09-21-2008, 02:14 AM
Ramesses' family is very closely allied to the god Set, who seems to be primarily worshiped in the Delta region. In the book The Complete Royal Families of Ancient Egypt there's a photograph of the Year 400 Stela, made during the reign of Horemheb, and modified during the reign of Seti I. The book also has a list of all those sons and daughters of Ramesses II, along with some bits and pieces about all the various wives.

michellemoran
09-21-2008, 02:47 AM
Yes! Ramesses's family was very closely linked with the god Set. If I could write The Heretic Queen over again, I would probably make that a thread of the novel. There's always so much to include that it's hard to decide what to keep, what to leave, and which parts deserve creative license.

And the The Complete Royal Families of Ancient Egypt (http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Royal-Families-Ancient-Egypt/dp/0500051283/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221965160&sr=1-1)is one of my favorite books on ancient Egypt. It's such a quick and handy guide (plus, Nefertiti is on the cover ;).

Telynor
09-21-2008, 03:01 AM
Yes! Ramesses's family was very closely linked with the god Set. If I could write The Heretic Queen over again, I would probably make that a thread of the novel. There's always so much to include that it's hard to decide what to keep, what to leave, and which parts deserve creative license.

And the The Complete Royal Families of Ancient Egypt (http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Royal-Families-Ancient-Egypt/dp/0500051283/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221965160&sr=1-1)is one of my favorite books on ancient Egypt. It's such a quick and handy guide (plus, Nefertiti is on the cover ;).

It's a very handy guide, I'm dipping into it constantly when I'm watching the course I have on Egypt on DVD. I am such an Egyptian nerd.... As a teen I started teaching myself hieroglyphs and painting the walls of my bedroom with Egyptian murals. And I tend to read everything that I can get my hands on about Egypt.

Oh, I did want to tell you that I really enjoyed the bit with the harp playing that you included -- that was a nice touch.

michellemoran
09-21-2008, 03:19 AM
Thank you, Telynor! I couldn't help myself ;] And I know that compliments from you are exceptionally hard to come by (and for good reason), so I appreciate it even more.

With so much knowledge on ancient Egypt, have you ever considered writing an historical novel (maybe you already are)? I meant to post this tidbit earlier today, but I didn't get a chance. If you - or anyone else - are in the midst of querying agents/editors, Heather Proulx at Crown is actively looking for historical fiction. She just purchased three books from debut authors, and she recently became my editor.

Telynor
09-21-2008, 03:38 AM
Thank you, Telynor! I couldn't help myself ;] And I know that compliments from you are exceptionally hard to come by (and for good reason), so I appreciate it even more.

With so much knowledge on ancient Egypt, have you ever considered writing an historical novel (maybe you already are)? I meant to post this tidbit earlier today, but I didn't get a chance. If you - or anyone else - are in the midst of querying agents/editors, Heather Proulx at Crown is actively looking for historical fiction. She just purchased three books from debut authors, and she recently became my editor.

I've thought about writing a novel, but never was quite so crazed as to actually go through with it. If I were, I would wait until I had taken a long, good trip through Egypt (I firmly believe in write about what you know, especially when it comes to novels). It's something that I always wanted to do, and there is a company that will arrange them in small groups, with BOB BRIER as your lecturer/guide. It would cost a small fortune, but oh! What a trip that would be.

michellemoran
09-21-2008, 05:08 AM
There is a company that will arrange them in small groups, with BOB BRIER as your lecturer/guide. It would cost a small fortune, but oh! What a trip that would be.

You know, sometimes that's what small fortunes are for! I did such a trip (not with Bob Brier, but with well known Greek/Roman archaeologists) this summer and retraced the journey of Odysseus from Homer's The Odyssey. The trip definitely fell into the small fortune category, but I figured, what else is the money for (in my case anyway)? I'm not interested in a plot with a view at the cemetery. I'd rather see the views now.

Andromeda_Organa
11-25-2008, 05:28 PM
One of the forum members had a great question she PMed me today and I thought I would share it. She wanted to know whether a woman's virginity was necessary for marriage in ancient Egypt, since Nefertari loses her virginity to Ramesses before they marry. The short answer is no. In fact, if Nefertari had lost her virginity to someone else, she would still have been considered a suitable wife for Ramesses. Sometimes Pharaohs even took women who already had children. Quite a few things were reversed in ancient Egypt. The historian Herodotus (who admittedly lived after Nefertari) wrote:

The Egyptians appear to have reversed the ordinary practices of mankind. Women attend markets and are employed in trade, while men stay at home and do the weaving! Men in Egypt carry loads on their head, women on their shoulder. Women pass water standing up, men sitting down. To ease themselves, they go indoors, but eat outside on the streets, on the theory that what is unseemly, but necessary, should be done in private, and what is not unseemly should be done openly.
(Herodotus II: 33-37)
I've read that women in ancient Egypt had a lot more rights than women in the other ancient cultures.

michellemoran
11-26-2008, 03:28 AM
Andromeda, you're right. When male travelers from other cultures would arrive in Egypt they were often shocked!

Andromeda_Organa
11-26-2008, 10:53 PM
Yes, I've read that too. One of the things the 19th century feminists pointed out was that women in ancient Egypt had more rights than women in that time period.

Tinuviel
11-27-2008, 03:17 AM
Michelle, I really enjoyed this book. Like a lot of you guys, I haven't read that many novels set in ancient Egypt (though I have read more set in ancient Greece and Rome) so this was really interesting to me. I think I still like Nefertiti better, but it was definitely a good read. I'm a history major and one of the time periods I'm specializing in is ancient Rome, so I'm really looking forward to Cleopatra's Daughter :)

michellemoran
11-27-2008, 05:24 AM
Thank you so much, Tinuviel! Isn't ancient Rome fascinating? I'm pursuing my Ph.D in history, albeit v...e...r...y slowly (who knew that writing a book a year would take... well... a year?!), and my focus is ancient Rome. I wish I could spend more time taking classes. I'm afraid at this rate I'll get my doctorate when I'm fifty-two ;)

Do you think you'll go on for a Masters or Ph.D?

Andromeda_Organa
11-27-2008, 07:26 PM
I'll be honest- I liked Heretic Queen better than Nefertiti- I couldn't get through Nefertiti. I think writers get better with each novel.

Tinuviel
11-27-2008, 08:16 PM
Thank you so much, Tinuviel! Isn't ancient Rome fascinating? I'm pursuing my Ph.D in history, albeit v...e...r...y slowly (who knew that writing a book a year would take... well... a year?!), and my focus is ancient Rome. I wish I could spend more time taking classes. I'm afraid at this rate I'll get my doctorate when I'm fifty-two ;)

Do you think you'll go on for a Masters or Ph.D?

I'd really like to, but I think once I graduate I'd like to take some time working first. I really want to get some workplace experience first, but after a few years of that I'd definitely want to.

Do you have plans for any other books after Cleopatra's Daughter?

michellemoran
11-28-2008, 05:01 PM
Tinuviel, that makes sense!

I'm not sure what I will be doing after Cleopatra's Daughter, but I had better come up with a plan soon since the proposal will be submitted in a few weeks. I have so many ideas that it's hard to choose just one or two! An author also has to look at how the idea will fit into their career's arc... so many things to decide!

donroc
11-28-2008, 05:32 PM
Life's choices and choices we make in writing, all of them difficult.

Research in writing, due diligence in life, plus some luck determine if we made the correct choices.

Andromeda_Organa
11-28-2008, 05:47 PM
Tinuviel, that makes sense!

I'm not sure what I will be doing after Cleopatra's Daughter, but I had better come up with a plan soon since the proposal will be submitted in a few weeks. I have so many ideas that it's hard to choose just one or two! An author also has to look at how the idea will fit into their career's arc... so many things to decide!

I would love to read about Hatshepsut!

michellemoran
12-03-2008, 12:48 AM
Hi Andromeda,

I believe Pauline Gedge wrote a book on Hatshepsut called Child of the Morning. I haven't read it, but I've heard that it's good!

Andromeda_Organa
12-03-2008, 01:30 AM
Hi Andromeda,

I believe Pauline Gedge wrote a book on Hatshepsut called Child of the Morning. I haven't read it, but I've heard that it's good!

I have it around my house somewhere. I'll have to give it a go!

red805
12-03-2008, 10:52 PM
Tinuviel, that makes sense!

I'm not sure what I will be doing after Cleopatra's Daughter, but I had better come up with a plan soon since the proposal will be submitted in a few weeks. I have so many ideas that it's hard to choose just one or two! An author also has to look at how the idea will fit into their career's arc... so many things to decide!

I would love to read something about the great library at Alexandria, or have it's story woven into a book. I don't know much about it, but wasn't it considered one of the ancient wonders of the world? Or maybe that was the building? Anyway, I'm looking forward to Cleopatra's Daughter.

Margaret
12-05-2008, 12:16 AM
It just makes me want to cry everytime I think about the library at Alexandria. It was the biggest library in the world at that time, and when it burned, some of the books that went up in flames were lost forever. We don't even know what they all were, but there were surely a lot of history books in it. We know that historians among the ancient Greeks and Romans had access to history books from earlier writers which no longer exist today, because they referenced them in their work.

michellemoran
12-05-2008, 02:14 AM
Thank you red805! And Margaret - I agree.

I would love to read something about the great library at Alexandria

I know of a very talented author who is trying to publish her novel about the LOA. It's a terrible time in publishing right now, but I feel confident that at some point in the future you'll be getting your wish!

TerriPray
01-13-2009, 08:08 AM
I was finally able to read Heretic Queen, thanks to my library doing a special order.

First - I don't get a lot of time to read these days. I'm up to my eyeballs in work. Between new games and books - well, I'm swamped. So, it has to be a damn good novel in order to tear me away from work.

Heretic Queen is a keeper, or would if I had ordered a copy for my personal shelf. The standard problems with historical novels, for me, tend to be data dumps and repeating information to fill gaps. That didn't happen with this book. The intrigue, the problems with the family, the shadow of ill fortune, they all blended together in a way that worked. The book didn't slow down for me at any point. It picked me up, dragged me along and kept me reading - enough that I had to be reminded by my eight year old that reading at dinner time was naughty (opps).

Bad bad author for getting me in trouble with my kids!