September 2009: Fingersmith by Sarah Waters [Archive]

diamondlil

09-01-2009, 11:51 AM

Ash

09-01-2009, 01:56 PM

I'd never read this author before, but a reading buddy of mine on another forum told me I had to read this one. Oh my. I think my favorite things about the book (besides being very well written) were the two main characters, the sense of time and place, and the twists and turns of the plot. I have since read some of Water's other books but for me none of them hold a candle to this one. Excited to be discussing it here!

EC2

09-01-2009, 04:26 PM

I was thoroughly engrossed by this novel and it was just the right kind of reading for a chilly autumn evening. In many ways I felt it was Dickensian in execution and feel. It is a few yeas since I read it, so I can't comments in great detail. I do remember guessing the twist straight away, and I did almost give up on the novel later on with the 'Gentleman' incident because it was almost too graphic and violent to continue reading. In the end, I skipped the pages because to me they were unbearable.
Sarah Waters' fiction has that effect on people. I was at a talk she gave where a reading was part of it, and an audience member fainted with a loud thud, and had to be carried out!
My verdict is very powerful, very gripping, but not always pleasant story telling!
I'd give it 5 stars and I'm glad I read it - even if I didn't like it very much!

Margaret

09-01-2009, 04:52 PM

My reaction was similar to EC's, though I didn't skip the uncomfortable pages. Though it wasn't all that graphic, portions of the novel verged on sexual sadism, which is not my favorite kind of reading. It was only the one section, though, that really bothered me, and I was so hooked by the plot I couldn't put the book down - I ended up finishing it at about 3:30 a.m., which shows why EC gave it 5 stars! I don't use a star system, but this is a candidate for my "best of 2009" list, although it's got lots of competition - I've read some very good books this year.

It's interesting to me that the lesbian sex (quite graphic in at least one scene) was not offensive to me, whereas the allusions (most not very graphic at all) to the heterosexual sex did creep me out. The former had a loving quality, though, whereas the latter did not, which explains it.

A disturbing, well-written novel. I just posted my review yesterday at www.HistoricalNovels.info (http://www.HistoricalNovels.info/Fingersmith.html).

Lady Macbeth

09-01-2009, 05:53 PM

It's a few years since I read this and I definitely don't have time for a reread but I can recall being glued to this book and really didn't see the big twist mid-novel coming at all. I don't remember being bothered by the lesbian sex at the time but I do now find this a bit of a recurring theme in her novels.

There was a TV adaptation a few years ago too.

Leo62

09-01-2009, 11:14 PM

I just finished it late last night. Totally loved it! :D

Didn't guess any of the twists, apart from the one towards the end involving Mrs Sucksby & Maud. Very well written - I didn't find it graphic at all - most of the horror was suggested rather than laid on with a trowel. But yes, Gentleman's fate was truly...memorable. :eek:

I think she's a very powerful and talented writer with few contemporary equals. Great storytelling, unforgettable characters, a strong, true, subtle sense of gothic (The Little Stranger, which I read last month, was just as atmospheric and compelling, but in a completely different way). A definite whiff of Dickens, I thought (note the reference to Oliver Twist in the opening chapter), what with fallen women, orphaned babies etc. And Mr Lilly reminded me a lot of Casaubon in Middlemarch, until the true nature of his "collection" was revealed (a stroke of genius! Didn't see that coming at all :eek:).

I've been watching the TV adaptation alongside reading the novel. For me it didn't really capture the gothic menace of Briar, but otherwise was pretty faithful - and very well cast. Can't imagine anyone but Imelda Staunton as Mrs Sucksby. :D

EC2

09-01-2009, 11:33 PM

Most people don't seem to have got the mid novel twist, but I saw it coming a mile off and thought 'Surely she's not going to pull something that obvious. Then I was surprised when other readers said they didn't see it coming. I think my brain must have odd wiring. Generally I'm rubbish at crossword puzzles and picking up clues, so it's not down to a top notch sneaky and deductive mind. I must just have been on the same wavelength as the author at that point.
It is a very, very, powerful novel. Disturbing and visceral. I still shudder when I think of the yellow smoked fish staining on that pair of gloves but the fact that image is still with me years on, when other novels have faded into the mist, goes to show the strength of the writing.

Ash

09-02-2009, 12:31 AM

I really didn't see that twist; there were several other twists I thought were happening, but that one was 'whoa!'.

I wasn't bothered by the graphic sex, it was no worse than others I'd read. And I agree, the lesbian sex scenes were very loving, and felt right. BTW, Waters is considered a 'gay lit' author, and in the past her books have been hidden away in the gay lit section of bookstores. This one, and Tipping the Velvet, thank goodness has brought her out of the closet so to speak, and more and more people are reading this excellent author (I just hate those genre shelves, and wish stores would just shelf fiction by last names)

Telynor

09-02-2009, 05:07 AM

I loved reading Fingersmith, and none of Ms. Waters novels yet hold a candle to it in terms of quality. I think the earlier poster had it right about the lesbian vs. heterosexual sex, and how it was used was wonderfully handled. The collection creeped me right out, I knew that part was coming (being raised by a pedophile does tend to make one sensitive to that sort of thing), and there were scenes where I had to put the book down and walk away for a while til I could calm down. Let's just say it was a very cathartic book for me to read.

But O! the language -- I could see some sequences so played out in my head, that I found myself doodling scenes from the book. And the imagery of the gloves and that forbidding house. The Meaning of Night had much the same on me as well, but in a different fashion.

Not to mention the characters. It's one of those books that has earned a permament spot on my keeper shelf.

Leo62

09-02-2009, 04:03 PM

I loved reading Fingersmith, and none of Ms. Waters novels yet hold a candle to it in terms of quality.
Telynor - have you read The Little Stranger yet? I thought it equalled Fingersmith both in term of quality and sheer wonderful gothic strangeness, though the style is very different.

BTW, Waters is considered a 'gay lit' author, and in the past her books have been hidden away in the gay lit section of bookstores. This one, and Tipping the Velvet, thank goodness has brought her out of the closet so to speak, and more and more people are reading this excellent author (I just hate those genre shelves, and wish stores would just shelf fiction by last names)
Hear hear! I think it's an insult to the writers to ghettoise them in this way. Thank goodness it seems to be (slowly) going out of fashion...

The more I think about Fingersmith, the more I see parallels with Oliver Twist. I don't think it's an accident that she mentions OT on the very first page of the book... it's kinda like OT's dark sister, with Mrs Sucksby as Fagin, Gentleman as Bill Sikes, Sue as the Artful Dodger and Maud as Oliver :D

And Dickens was famous for making people faint at his readings too. ;)

Ludmilla

09-02-2009, 06:16 PM

It's been a few years since I've read it, so the plot isn't fresh in my head (god how I wish I had an iron-clad memory like some of you!), but what I remember (and loved about it) are the points of view, how from them we can see how people misread and deceive one another (and I can't imagine a film or tv series being able to adequately capture that on screen). I thought it was brilliantly executed. I also think the parallels to Oliver Twist are intentional.

Re the location of her books in the bookstore, I guess I haven't been to any near me that have that special section! They've always been grouped in General Literature. I think all of the author's books transcend the 'gay lit' label though.

Margaret

09-02-2009, 06:32 PM

And Mr Lilly reminded me a lot of Casaubon in Middlemarch, until the true nature of his "collection" was revealed (a stroke of genius! Didn't see that coming at all ).

I didn't see it coming either, and after it was revealed, I felt like I was pretty dumb not to have realized it. I worked very hard on my review to convey the nature of some of the novel's content and themes without giving this away, because it seems so obvious in retrospect!

And I didn't see the mid-novel twist coming, either! EC, I think a writer is more likely to see these things, because writers often instinctively think about plot structure while they're reading, whereas people who are just reading for fun let the book wash over them without thinking too hard about what might be coming next. Though that doesn't explain why I didn't see it coming! I think the novel's atmosphere just gripped me. I usually put a lot of little bookmarks in while reading a novel I'm planning to review, wherever something strikes me as particularly characteristic of the author's style or the novel's theme, etc. - But I don't think I put even one into Fingersmith - I was just too immersed in the story to pull back enough to think in a more detached way about structure.

I agree that bookstores shouldn't segregate "gay fiction." I'm not gay, and I don't seek out books with gay characters in them, but a number of the novels I've read over the past year or two and found exceptionally good do center on gay characters. I'm so glad I didn't miss them!

Madeleine

09-02-2009, 07:03 PM

I haven't read this (hoping to get it started soon!) but from what I remember of the TV series it was very Dickension; I did guess the twist about the baby but from what you've said the TV version did, as usual, cut out a lot of the book.

BTW, she is filed under general fiction in my local bookstores; I wouldn't call her books gay fiction, it's just the main characters happen to be gay - you don't have a "straight" fiction section in bookstores do you?!

Margaret

09-02-2009, 08:50 PM

Yes, very Dickensian!

Vanessa

09-02-2009, 09:22 PM

In Waterstone's in Leeds her books can be found under both sections.

JaneConsumer

09-02-2009, 11:00 PM

I couldn't get into the book, though I see I'm very much in the minority here. Maybe I'll try it again some day.

I read up to the end of the first section, so I think I gave it a chance. But it could just be my mood.

Ash

09-02-2009, 11:36 PM

It's been a few years since I've read it, so the plot isn't fresh in my head (god how I wish I had an iron-clad memory like some of you!), .

Hee, should we tell her about the synopsis search on Wikipedia? Or let her think we have iron clad memories! Nah.

Margaret

09-03-2009, 01:09 AM

I didn't find the first section as compelling as the rest of the novel. I liked it for the atmosphere, kind of a cross between a Gothic novel and Oliver Twist. But until I got to the section in Maud's point of view, I found Maud a rather limp character. That changed when I reached her point of view - she's really quite a complex mix of fears and pluck, but she keeps her thoughts very much to herself for reasons that become obvious in part 2, so in part 1 the reader doesn't have access to most of what makes her interesting.

It's not a novel for everyone, though. You'd have to enjoy the 19th century pacing and ambiance. Even the latter part of the novel does not have a fast-paced plot in the usual sense, though it is highly suspenseful. The process of peeling away the layers was interesting. A good bit of part 2 is a retelling of events from part 1, but from Maud's perspective - and Maud's perspective is so very different from Sue's, this did make things quite interesting for me.

Telynor

09-03-2009, 02:10 AM

Telynor - have you read The Little Stranger yet? I thought it equalled Fingersmith both in term of quality and sheer wonderful gothic strangeness, though the style is very different.

I have The Little Stranger on Mt TBR, I tried starting it, but didn't get past the first couple of chapters. I do intend to give it another chance.

Hear hear! I think it's an insult to the writers to ghettoise them in this way. Thank goodness it seems to be (slowly) going out of fashion...

The more I think about Fingersmith, the more I see parallels with Oliver Twist. I don't think it's an accident that she mentions OT on the very first page of the book... it's kinda like OT's dark sister, with Mrs Sucksby as Fagin, Gentleman as Bill Sikes, Sue as the Artful Dodger and Maud as Oliver :D

And Dickens was famous for making people faint at his readings too. ;)

I can't stand how being gay or lesbian automatically gets one classified as 'other', and being ghettoized is a terrible insult, to anyone. At least there are films and books where being gay is finally being addressed, and while there are still terrible things going on, at least people in mainstream life are starting to speak out against abuse.

I understand that a lot of Fingersmith is in homage to Wilkie Collin's The Woman in White, still one of the best mystery novels out there. The more I dig into Victorian fiction, the more interesting things I keep finding.

Margaret

09-03-2009, 05:10 AM

I understand that a lot of Fingersmith is in homage to Wilkie Collin's The Woman in White

Interesting - at first I didn't see the similarity between the two novels, because they're so very different in style. But they do both have to do with the idea of a man marrying a woman in order to exploit her wealth then forcing her into a madhouse. Apparently, this kind of thing really did go on. I can see how the temptation would exist, since a man could readily gain control of wealth by marrying an heiress, and a husband had almost complete power over his wife, even to the extent of getting her shut away in an asylum. After all, the angrier the wife got about what her husband was trying to do to her, the more "hysterical" and therefore crazy she would seem to the "experts."

I did enjoy The Woman in White, but never for a moment lost the awareness that I was reading a work of fiction that someone had crafted. Whereas with Fingersmith I truly did get immersed in the story.

JaneConsumer

09-03-2009, 05:04 PM

A good bit of part 2 is a retelling of events from part 1, but from Maud's perspective - and Maud's perspective is so very different from Sue's, this did make things quite interesting for me.

This approach really appealed to me when I read The Instance of the Fingerpost. But I didn't read far enough into Fingersmith to witness it. I'm not a fan of Victorian backdrops either. So the combination of unlikeable characters (at least in part 1), the era, and the slow pace just killed it for me.

I plan to try The Little Stranger, though. I'm next on the waiting list at the library.

Leo62

09-03-2009, 08:53 PM

Interesting - at first I didn't see the similarity between the two novels, because they're so very different in style. But they do both have to do with the idea of a man marrying a woman in order to exploit her wealth then forcing her into a madhouse.

I did enjoy The Woman in White, but never for a moment lost the awareness that I was reading a work of fiction that someone had crafted. Whereas with Fingersmith I truly did get immersed in the story.

I think the only thing the two books have in common is that particular plot point!

Waters seems to have a recurring theme of madness and incarceration running through her books. Her prison/madhouse scenes are unfailingly powerful and disturbing. The threat of madness always seems to be lurking around the corner...

The Little Stranger is a slow starter, the atmosphere builds up very gradually, but it's well worth persisting with. Part of the point of the story is the conventionality and "boringness" of the narrator - don't let it put you off!

Ludmilla

09-04-2009, 02:40 PM

Since we seem to be discussing covers today in the general thread, I must admit that I love the cover of this book. I think the image of the white gloves on top of the antique books is perfect.

Libby

09-04-2009, 07:51 PM

It's a while since I read this but it is a very memorable book. Perhaps not a book that you can 'enjoy' reading but one that is very striking in its descriptions.

Of all Sarah Waters' books I think this one is the best(even if I did suspect the plot twist). The book had a strong sense of place and the characters were excellently drawn.

And yes, good cover too.

ruth

09-05-2009, 08:33 PM

I read this a few months ago - loved it. I have read three books by Sarah Waters now, and none of them have disappointed me.

Amanda

09-10-2009, 03:03 AM

I am reading it now. I have had it on the shelves for a few years now. I did watch the TV adaption last year sometime and really enjoyed it. I am loving the book so far - I have just started part 2. Even though I know the story, the pacing of the story still has me captivated. I really admire her writing style, and am looking forward to reading the other books of hers that I have.

Amanda

09-21-2009, 10:14 AM

Almost finished the book! I really like how the author includes mentions of period detail, and it isn't over done. For example at one point Mrs Sucksby is talking about some dresses and one is arsenic green. Had to go off and google that!

Amanda

09-24-2009, 04:42 AM

Just finished the book this morning!

I would rank it as my favourite book thus far this year. I am now torn between rewatching the BBC series, finishing watching Young Victoria, getting through the rest of The Historian (good read but feeling a bit long), and cracking on with A Breath of Snow and Ashes as I need to get it read before An Echo in the Bone! Arrgghhh......too much to choose!

Margaret

09-25-2009, 01:47 AM

Sounds like a delicious dilemma, Amanda!

Vanessa

10-04-2009, 07:46 PM

I thought this was an excellent read and very much enjoyed all the twists and turns. I also thought it was very atmospheric and quite creepy.

It was very fast paced, held my attention throughout and was very well written - loved it!

I'll just add that I agree with Leo's comparison to Oliver Twist. I can see the parallels, too!

Madeleine

10-11-2009, 10:33 AM

Have just finished this and have mixed feelings! I thought it was well-written and enjoyed the first part, however the second part I did find a little bit boring and very "talky", and then the final part all seemed to happen a bit too quickly. What didn't help, admittedly, was that I remember the TV series quite well and knew what the twists were, which meant, of course, that most of the suspense was gone, so I think if I hadn't seen the telly version first, I would probably have got a lot more out of the book as I wouldn't have seen the twists coming, although I did guess about the babies being swapped whilst I was watching the TV series.

So in this case, a classic example of not watching a film/TV version before you've read the book!

red805

03-22-2011, 08:37 PM

I'm very slow to the party I guess, but I just finished Fingersmith last night & it was unlike anything I've read, & extremely memorable in its twists & turns. I definitely did not guess the first twist. For me the beginning was a bit slow, but it grew on me & I think I put it down, finally, at about 2 am this morning. I am wondering if Netflix may have the tv series to rent. Now I'm just going to have to go to the bookstore today & see what other Sarah Waters books they may have.:)

Ash

03-23-2011, 01:15 AM

I've read a few of her others and while I liked Tipping the Velvet, felt that Fingersmith was by far the most interesting for me. I didn't realize they made a series of it!?! Not sure I want to see it - I have so many memorable visual images of the book that I think seeing it on the screen would really disappoint me. Lemme know what you think, tho.