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annabel
08-02-2009, 09:39 AM
I'm reading The Cunning of the Dove, Alfred Duggan. He mentions that Earl Godwin's son, Sweyn, and a cousin, Beorn, were created Earls on the wedding day of Edith and King Edward. I'm curious about the creation of Earls at this time. Were these new titles or were they taken from other men. If so, what happened to the ex - earls?

SarahWoodbury
08-02-2009, 02:52 PM
They were either new titles or the title had languished because the line had died out. Either that, or the Earl was in major disfavor/executed/in prison, and he was stripped of his title but that didn't happen that often and probably not in this case.

annabel
08-02-2009, 04:02 PM
Thanks, Sarah.
I suppose the ordinary people who worked on the land didn't really mind who their earl was, they had to pay their taxes anyway.
I'm working my way backwards from the Conquest, trying to read books set from about 900 onwards. The Anglo Saxon period is one I don't know much about. William's feudal system seems more straightforwrd, though pretty brutal.
I love this site. So many people with so much knowledge.
The only problem is the recommendations for new (to me, anyway) authors. My clicking finger is working overtime and making Amazon happy. Now all I have to do is find the time to read them all.

annis
08-03-2009, 03:30 AM
When Swegn and Beorn were made Earls, "earl" was still a very new title in England.

The title of earl (the English equivalent of count, from the Danish "jarl") was first introduced into England under King Canute of Denmark and of Norway (king of England 1016–35), but prior to this in England the duties of an earl, the administration of a shire or province on behalf of the king, were performed by ealdormen.

Godwin, the son of Wulfnoth, was a large landowner in England. Although an Anglo-Saxon, Godwin decided to give his support to the Dane, Canute the Great, when he became king of England in 1016. Godwin became Canute's brother-in-law and right-hand man.

In 1017 Canute divided his kingdom into four earldoms - Northumbria, East Anglia, Mercia and Wessex. While he chose Danes as earls of Northumbria and East Anglia, he appointed Godwin as the Earl of Wessex. (Mercia was left by Canute in the hands of its ruling Anglo-Saxon Ealdorman, Eadric Streona , but after Eadric's death it passed into the hands of another Anglo-Saxon nobleman, Leofric, who became Earl of Mercia sometime before 1030)

In 1043, on being crowned King of England, Edward used the support of his four great English earls to deprive his mother, Emma, of her lands and treasure. (Another dysfunctional family!) Edward rewarded the earls; Godwin's reward was to have minor earldoms given to his sons, Swegn and Harold, and his nephew Beorn Thorkilsson. The seal was set on the alliance between Edward and Earl Godwin in 1045 when Edward married Godwin's daughter, Edith. Harold was created Earl of East Anglia at this point, though he picked up other earldoms over time.

The title Earl of Hereford was created for Swegn (Earl Godwin's oldest son) in 1043, (2 years earlier than King Edward's marriage to Edith of Wessex, in fact) though he forfeited it in 1051, when he was exiled for life by King Edward the Confessor.

Beorn ( Godwin's nephew) was granted a newly created title of Earl as well. He probably held land in Hertfordshire. It's not clear if his title was granted in 1043 or 1045, though 1045 at the same time as Harold's seems more likely.

Beorn was murdered in 1049 by his cousin Swegn, who had a wild, violent streak.

Article from Regia Anglorum (http://www.regia.org/godwins.htm) about the rise of the House of Godwin. The Godwinssons were every bit as turbulent as that later royal family, the Plantagenets!

Stephen Lowe's article, "The Godwins, a Family of Power" (http://www.geocities.com/egfrothos/Godwins.html).

If you want to go backwards, I'd recommend Valerie Anand's novel "Gildenford" and Ray Bryant's "Warriors of the Dragon Gold" for the period leading up to the reign of Edward the Confessoor.

Misfit
08-03-2009, 12:41 PM
If you want to go backwards, I'd recommend Valerie Anand's novel "Gildenford" and Ray Bryant's "Warriors of the Dragon Gold" for the period leading up to the reign of Edward the Confessoor.

I liked the Gildenford books as well. There's also Hollick's two book, A Hollow Crown and Harold the King.

annabel
08-03-2009, 01:17 PM
Thanks, Annis, that was a very clear summary.

The Regia Anglorum site is fantastic. I'm interested in jewellery and they have a great article about Anglo-Saxon methods of manufacture.
I have The Hollow Crown as my next read but am going to order the Anand next.

The Godwins sound amazing. Why do we have so many books about the Tudors and so few about this period, I wonder?

annis
08-03-2009, 06:04 PM
Sheelagh Kelly's novel "Jorvik" covers the period from Aethelred the Unready (http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Aethelred_II) to Edward the Confessor, beginning with the massacre of the Danes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Brice's_Day_massacre) on St Brices' Day ordered by King Aethelred II, and showing how much England at that point was an Anglo-Saxon/Scandinavian society.

It was a turbulent time, and violence, treachery and murder were rife- you'd think it would have attracted more attention from authors. I'm guessing that it's much harder to gather facts from a time so far back and any original sources would be in Latin and not altogether reliable. Bernard Cornwell has certainly stirred up interest in the earlier time of King Alfred with his "Uhtred" series.

robinbird79
08-03-2009, 08:38 PM
I liked the Gildenford books as well. There's also Hollick's two book, A Hollow Crown and Harold the King.

I read A Hollow Crown a couple months ago for a group read over at Goodreads and I enjoyed it. It focuses mainly on Queen Emma's life from her marriage to Aethelred up through the death of her second husband, Cnut, and ends right before her son, Edward, takes the throne.

annabel
08-04-2009, 09:57 AM
I've ordered Jorvikbut can't find the Anand's Gildenfordat a sensible price so will be patient and keep looking.
Thanks for all the information.

annis
08-04-2009, 07:49 PM
It might be worth looking into the library interloan system for those expensive/hard-to-get novels, Annabel. It's often cheap or even free, depending on your library.