Catherine de Medici

[Tanzanite]

I wasn't really sure where to put this, so I thought I would start a thread on Catherine.

You can read a couple of excerpts from Jeanne Kalogridis The Devil's Queen here. (http://www.bookreporter.com/reviews2/9780312368432-excerpt.asp)

[Misfit]

Thanks for posting those. I intend to read them after I let go of M. Dumas and The Two Dianas. Speaking of Catherine, I thought I'd share this quote from Volume II:

The ideas of the Italian courts on politics, imported by Catherine de Medicis and her Florentines, were then fashionable in France. He who best deceived was reputed cleverest. To conceal one's thoughts and disguise one's deeds was the great art. Sincereity would have passed for folly.

The noblest and purest characters of the time - Conligny, Conde, and Chacellor Olivier - were tainted with this leprosy.

Consequently, the Duke de Guise did not despite the Prince de Conde: he admired him.

[Susan]

I wasn't really sure where to put this, so I thought I would start a thread on Catherine.

You can read a couple of excerpts from Jeanne Kalogridis The Devil's Queen here. (http://www.bookreporter.com/reviews2/9780312368432-excerpt.asp)

I have this book on preorder. French royalty is not my strong point and after visiting many French royal sites on my recent trip, I thought I'd make it a point to learn more about French royals.

[tsjmom]

This is on my TBR list!

[zsigandr]

I have just finished reading (in the past week) and actually liked it. There is a lot of superstition and black magic, but I found it interesting (not sure how historically accurate) or if Catherine really practiced black magic.

I found I was sympathetic to her character in this story, I never really thought of her as evil in this novel, maybe a little cold in some aspects, but not truly evil. At least not compared to how history often depicts her!

[princess garnet]

Jean Plaidy wrote a few novels on her.

[Misfit]

Well I just finished Devil's Queen and I am seriously underwhelmed. Let alone that she put in a couple of very PG'ish plot twists that were not addressed in her 1 1/2 pages worth of authors notes at the end.

[Divia]

Is this even worth my time? I gave it up and am reading girl in the blue dress but I was thinking of going back. Should I skip it?

[Misfit]

Is this even worth my time? I gave it up and am reading girl in the blue dress but I was thinking of going back. Should I skip it?

You know, my reading of French history is forever colored by reading Dumas. Everyone else loved Mistress of the Sun. That said, outside of the PG like twists, I had issues with the first person narrative that really hemmed the story telling in. Working on a review for Amazon right now.

Personally, I'm glad it's a library book and really wished I'd skipped it.

[Leyland]

Regarding this fascinating queen, I am eagerly waiting for Chris Gortner's newest project, The Confessions of Catherine de Medici. Summer 2010 just seems too far away to wait.

[Misfit]

Regarding this fascinating queen, I am eagerly waiting for Chris Gortner's newest project, The Confessions of Catherine de Medici. Summer 2010 just seems too far away to wait.

That's three of us, as I know chatterbox is on that list as well.

[Divia]

Maybe I should just read Chris version and chuck this other one.

I still have to read The last Queen. :o I was reading it then books from the lib came in.

[zsigandr]

I am very much looking forward to reading CW's take on Catherine as well! With The Last Queen being so well written and such a pleasure to read, I cannot wait to read this next book!

[cw gortner]

Gosh, you're all so sweet:). Thank you for being eager to read my take on Madame de Medici; I know summer 2010 does seem a long way off, for me, as well, but that's how long it takes these days to get hardcovers scheduled. By the time the ball gets rolling with marketing, etc. then the time starts to fly.

I promise to keep you updated on the book's progress through the chain of command. Right now, final revised ms. is with my editor. But I do know that the summer 2010 date is scheduled, because I just answered a hefty questionnaire for that season, mostly around marketing plans for the book.

Now, I'm praying for a really spectacular cover.

[Divia]

Once the cover is finalized you have to post it here for us :) I'll be eager to see it. And I hope it is a great one

[diamondlil]

I am sure there are more people waiting!

[gyrehead]

I pretty much loathed The Devil's Queen. She really tries to excuse Catherine of just about anything. Not so much as creating a rational but more of a "it wasn't her fault" approach. While I do think that Catherine was maligned I also think she was a product of her times. And her nurturing. I think not onyl was a strong female ruler more suspect but a strong female ruler who kept her power needed to be ruthless. Perhaps even more so than a male.

For me Catherine can be bloody and murderous and cunning and downright ambitiously grasping. Because otherwise she faced death or imprisonment or being stuck in a convent. I have no problem seeing a character male or female taking on rivals and getting rid of them before they got rid of you. If a male historical character does it he can still do and be portrayed sympathetically. Even be the "hero". When a woman does it she has to be evil. Or such an over-victim of circumstances coughKalogridiscough that really she has no control and is even worse of a wet rag.

[cw gortner]

Some news on my Catherine de Medici book, as promised:

My revisions have been officially approved by my editor:D and the on-sale date is 5/25/2010.

As soon as I have cover art, I'll post.

[Divia]

Excellent.

I can't wait to see the cover. I hope its grand :)

[Chatterbox]

As Misfit says, Chatterbox is indeed pawing the ground, anxiously awaiting publication day. Maybe it will end up in Vine so I'll get to read it early???

[penelope29]

I loved 'The Last Queen' and it sits proudly in the staff recommends bay in the bookshop where I work. It's so nice to read a book about a lesser known character, and one so well written. I can't wait for the new book and shall wait with bated breath until it's in my grubby little hands!

[diamondlil]

Some news on my Catherine de Medici book, as promised:

My revisions have been officially approved by my editor:D and the on-sale date is 5/25/2010.

As soon as I have cover art, I'll post.


Excellent news! Added it to my list!

Do you have an official title already?

[tsjmom]

Some news on my Catherine de Medici book, as promised:

My revisions have been officially approved by my editor:D and the on-sale date is 5/25/2010.

As soon as I have cover art, I'll post.

I was just about to post on the "people you'd like to see more HF written about" thread when I saw this. I can't wait!! I'm surprised there isn't more written about this fascinating "bad girl" in history.

Nine months is such a long time to wait :S

[Chatterbox]

Tsjmom, there's some stuff out there. Jeanne Kalogridis has a brand-new HC book devoted to Catherine, and Jean Plaidy has a trilogy of books devoted to her. As things go, she's not all that unknown, just overlooked for now amidst all the Tudor-mania. I think Susan Carroll's novels feature her, as well (although I've never found them very readable). There is Diane Haeger's novel about Diane de Poitiers, which of course ends up dealing with Catherine. Judith Merkle Riley has a book focusing on Catherine & her links with Nostradamus (which forms part of Kalogridis's book, which is heavily based on the occult.) Some of these verge closer to fantasy than historical fiction.

What's been missing and what I'm hoping CW will provide is a solid biographical-style but lively novel of Catherine's life. The Plaidy trilogy is the most solid, so far, but it's been out for decades, there's a lot more new research, and there's room for a livelier rendering. (Let's face it, Plaidy is no prose stylist...)

[Misfit]

There is also Dumas, Catherine plays prominently in La Reine Margot and she's really OTT in delightful wickedness. You'll also find her in his two volume book called The Two Dianas (these can be found through inter-library loan).

[Julianne Douglas]

Wonderful news, Christopher! I can't wait to read it. Let me know how I can help spread the word. I'll blog about it as soon as you have some cover art.

[tsjmom]

Tsjmom, there's some stuff out there. Jeanne Kalogridis has a brand-new HC book devoted to Catherine, and Jean Plaidy has a trilogy of books devoted to her. As things go, she's not all that unknown, just overlooked for now amidst all the Tudor-mania. I think Susan Carroll's novels feature her, as well (although I've never found them very readable). There is Diane Haeger's novel about Diane de Poitiers, which of course ends up dealing with Catherine. Judith Merkle Riley has a book focusing on Catherine & her links with Nostradamus (which forms part of Kalogridis's book, which is heavily based on the occult.) Some of these verge closer to fantasy than historical fiction.

What's been missing and what I'm hoping CW will provide is a solid biographical-style but lively novel of Catherine's life. The Plaidy trilogy is the most solid, so far, but it's been out for decades, there's a lot more new research, and there's room for a livelier rendering. (Let's face it, Plaidy is no prose stylist...)

Thanks Chatterbox! I've read all that you mentioned except for J. Plaidy. I just thought writers would be all over this 'mean girl' LOL!

[Chatterbox]

I think that the absence of a romantic element in Catherine's life probably keeps some novelists away. That and the fact that while powerful, she was a pretty tough cookie. Think a 16th century Margaret Thatcher. Let's face it, not appealing HF material! (You're right though -- she's a great character.)

She does appear in a lot more French HF, however. Not that that is any consolidation, as CW will pop in here to remind me forcibly...

[cw gortner]

I just wish I could read those French hf novels, Chatterbox!;)

I think she's not as well covered in English hf because she's controversial; Plaidy's depiction of her, as well as most others to a certain extent, tend to make her either completely ruthless or a victim of circumstances (though the latter is much more rare than the former). The 'evil' camp generally sees her as responsible for murdering thousands of Protestants, and the Catholic angle doesn't come across well, in Plaidy's work, in particular.

I haven't read Kalogridis' novel so I cannot comment. Personally, however, to me any heavy-handed approach to Catherine's alleged interest in black magic fuels the legend and has little basis in reality.

What I hope I've done with my version is bridge that chasm to present a more nuanced portrait of a woman who faced very tough choices. And, I did find a romantic story for her . . . well, sort of.

Julianne, as always, you're the best! Thanks so much for the offer!! As soon as I have cover art, I'll let you know. I'll be looking over the copy edited ms. when I return from Spain (I'm going from September 2 - 18); some time after I return the copyedited ms., I think I'll start to see first drafts of cover art.

I wonder what they'll come up with . . .:rolleyes:

[Misfit]

I haven't read Kalogridis' novel so I cannot comment. Personally, however, to me any heavy-handed approach to Catherine's alleged interest in black magic fuels the legend and has little basis in reality.

She wrote in a couple of really odd twists at the end that weren't addressed in her notes. Just say in the notes I made it up.

[cw gortner]

My word count was so tight on this one, I really had to work hard to stay within the limit. My editor had specific areas she wanted enhanced, so towards the end I struggled between axing story details or reducing the author note; in the end, author note got the brunt of it. I did retain a decent author note, however, though it's shorter by almost a page and a half.

I love the idea of an Author's Note that basically says: "I made it up. Get over it.":D

Diamondlil, the working title is: The Confessions of Catherine de Medici. It might change to Catherine de Medici's Confessions but so far there's no mention of any issues with title. It's a bit long but I think it fits the book perfectly, plus from a marketing standpoint I want her name there. Marquee value, and all that jazz.

And thank you, Penelope, for your lovely words. So nice to hear. The second book is always scarier than the first one, at least for me as an author: lots of expectations have been built up, if readers liked your first effort. Catherine, however, is such a different character from Juana, I had tons of fun slipping into her widow's weeds. Her differences helped cleanse my quill, so to speak.

[Chatterbox]

I just wish I could read those French hf novels, Chatterbox!;)

What I hope I've done with my version is bridge that chasm to present a more nuanced portrait of a woman who faced very tough choices. And, I did find a romantic story for her . . . well, sort of.



Ha! I told you he'd have some thoughts about my mentioning the French HF... That said, CW, my translation services are for sale, at a very unreasonable price....

And the second point is precisely why I'm looking forward to this book so much. I hadn't read anything about Juana where she was a principal character that really nailed the issues she faced. While there may be few similarities between the two of them as individuals, I think the big similarity is that they are two women who were of great historic importance, and yet who were 'difficult' women in their time and since then haven't easily fitted into any conventional HF trope. Instead people get all excited about Anne Boleyn or Catherine of Aragon, or Marie Antoinette, or Eleanor of Aquitaine -- women who, however unconventional their experiences, are somehow more understandable and 'mainstream unconventional'. You can tell Eleanor's story as a love story, for instance, with relative ease compared to Juana or Catherine.

So kudos to you, CW, for tackling the toughies. And have a great trip to Spain. (envious... which parts are you heading for?? I want to go back to Sevilla and see some flamenco. Too long to wait until the Feb. flamenco fest here.)

[cw gortner]

And the second point is precisely why I'm looking forward to this book so much. . . I hadn't read anything about Juana where she was a principal character that really nailed the issues she faced. While there may be few similarities between the two of them as individuals, I think the big similarity is that they are two women who were of great historic importance, and yet who were 'difficult' women in their time and since then haven't easily fitted into any conventional HF trope.

Gosh, I pray it lives up to these expectations! I did try. It was at the forefront of my mind as I wrote Catherine, much as with Juana. Forget whatever people "said" about them; I tried to look at their world, their issues, through their eyes. I just hope I got it in Catherine's case.

Spain: we'll mainly be in the south, with four days at the end in Madrid to see friends and my Spanish editor. We're staying in Malaga and going to Granada, Cordoba, Sevilla, Ronda, and taking a day trip to Morocco. I can't wait!!

[Tanzanite]

She wrote in a couple of really odd twists at the end that weren't addressed in her notes. Just say in the notes I made it up.

They were rather interesting and fit nicely into her story. But by all means, if you're going to make up interesting stuff, at least tell people it itsn' true - and take credit for the idea!

[Misfit]

They were rather interesting and fit nicely into her story. But by all means, if you're going to make up interesting stuff, at least tell people it itsn' true - and take credit for the idea!

That's all I want. Is it too much to ask?

[Miss Moppet]

She does appear in a lot more French HF, however. Not that that is any consolidation, as CW will pop in here to remind me forcibly...

So Chatter, how favourably is Catherine usually portrayed in French HF, post Dumas? Do French authors see her as Italian or French? Marie Antoinette is now seen as French (by the French) although in her lifetime, she was always the 'Austrian woman.'

[Chatterbox]

I think she's seen as much the same kind of queen as Marie Antoinette -- only instead of being adopted posthumously because she's a romantic heroine, she is 'adopted' because she turned out to be an able ruler in place of her rather inept sons. Both remain controversial, for different reasons, however. And she's not really 'French'.
(I remember working as a tour guide at a WW1 battlefield and being asked very politely, "Mais vous n'etes pas francaise, mademoiselle?" It was an indirect way of (a) signalling that my accent still identified me as a foreigner, (b) asking where I came from and (c) telling me that if I wasn't French, anything else was de facto secondary. Otherwise she would have asked outright where I was from !!)

[Miss Moppet]

(I remember working as a tour guide at a WW1 battlefield and being asked very politely, "Mais vous n'etes pas francaise, mademoiselle?" It was an indirect way of (a) signalling that my accent still identified me as a foreigner, (b) asking where I came from and (c) telling me that if I wasn't French, anything else was de facto secondary. Otherwise she would have asked outright where I was from !!)

No French person is ever fooled by my accent either - I just don't spend enough time in France to really perfect it - but many a French tourist has asked me for directions in Paris, so I must look French even if my cover is blown as soon as I open my mouth.

[Chatterbox]

The good news these days is that they think I'm some different kind of Francophone. The Belgians think Quebecois, the Quebeckers are convinced I'm French, the French think I'm Swiss or Belgian, and the Swiss believe I'm Belgian. Go figure.

[Chatterbox]

We're staying in Malaga and going to Granada, Cordoba, Sevilla, Ronda, and taking a day trip to Morocco. I can't wait!!

OOOO, Ronda, one of my fave places.... The smell of jasmine....